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PC sound hardware need



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old February 18th 18, 10:55 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 637
Default PC sound hardware need

Hi, our local Talking newspaper has a problem.
The problem is this. The sound hardware both in the pc and the cheap
Behringer box have got a fixed level monitor of the input, not even mute
works on the latter and the internal card only has level monitor adjust if
you accept latency, which is unacceptable.
Are there any reasonably priced sound cards or usb interfaces which allow
simple control of through card/box monitor level, so we can match up the
playback to the record levels ?
At the moment the live mikes are louder than the playback by quite a bit
probably due to the Newsbridge software being designed that way. I cannot
change the software as its probably above the technical adjustments most of
the users will be happy with.

Also as I have mentioned before the computer at the studio is still
missing syllables near the start of recordings no matter what we make them
with hardware wise, and I wondered if there is a utility we can leaf running
that will show maybe as a graph when ram or processor cores max out during
the session. It occurred to me that graphic changes audio recording caching
etc may well be the issue, and it only happens on the newsbridge software
which we have little control of, so if its buffer is a bit smaller than say
goldwave, it could easily skip a part of a second went things get busy
4 gig of ram on a 4 core processor would seem to be ample for audio use.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!


  #2 (permalink)  
Old February 19th 18, 08:22 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,668
Default PC sound hardware need

You omit various details.

Do you want/use different USB (?) devices for recording than for playback?

How many inputs do you need in parallel? i.e. will stereo (2 channels) do
the job? If so, both with mic input, or what?

In general I tend to suggest the Scarlett 2i2 for general purpose use. But
I have no idea if it might suit you. This page compares it with
alternatives

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/ADC/USBrecording.html

Beyond that, some of your requirements may be a software/OS issue. But
since you don't state what software/OS is being used I can only assume it
is Windows as the OS, because Windows users take that for granted!

Jim

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Hi, our local Talking newspaper has a problem. The problem is this. The
sound hardware both in the pc and the cheap Behringer box have got a
fixed level monitor of the input, not even mute works on the latter and
the internal card only has level monitor adjust if you accept latency,
which is unacceptable. Are there any reasonably priced sound cards or
usb interfaces which allow simple control of through card/box monitor
level, so we can match up the playback to the record levels ? At the
moment the live mikes are louder than the playback by quite a bit
probably due to the Newsbridge software being designed that way. I
cannot change the software as its probably above the technical
adjustments most of the users will be happy with.


Also as I have mentioned before the computer at the studio is still
missing syllables near the start of recordings no matter what we make
them with hardware wise, and I wondered if there is a utility we can
leaf running that will show maybe as a graph when ram or processor cores
max out during the session. It occurred to me that graphic changes audio
recording caching etc may well be the issue, and it only happens on the
newsbridge software which we have little control of, so if its buffer is
a bit smaller than say goldwave, it could easily skip a part of a second
went things get busy 4 gig of ram on a 4 core processor would seem to be
ample for audio use. Brian


--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #3 (permalink)  
Old February 21st 18, 10:51 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 637
Default PC sound hardware need

I did post this yesterday but its gone missing. it is simple its just an
analogue in line level line out card we need but the one we have has a
fixed monitor level, and hence cannot be controlled or indeed switched of
to allow editing of the recording.

its using software we have to use unfortunately called newsbridge which has
an imbalance between record and play levels in any case making the issue
worse. Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
You omit various details.

Do you want/use different USB (?) devices for recording than for playback?

How many inputs do you need in parallel? i.e. will stereo (2 channels) do
the job? If so, both with mic input, or what?

In general I tend to suggest the Scarlett 2i2 for general purpose use. But
I have no idea if it might suit you. This page compares it with
alternatives

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/ADC/USBrecording.html

Beyond that, some of your requirements may be a software/OS issue. But
since you don't state what software/OS is being used I can only assume it
is Windows as the OS, because Windows users take that for granted!

Jim

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Hi, our local Talking newspaper has a problem. The problem is this. The
sound hardware both in the pc and the cheap Behringer box have got a
fixed level monitor of the input, not even mute works on the latter and
the internal card only has level monitor adjust if you accept latency,
which is unacceptable. Are there any reasonably priced sound cards or
usb interfaces which allow simple control of through card/box monitor
level, so we can match up the playback to the record levels ? At the
moment the live mikes are louder than the playback by quite a bit
probably due to the Newsbridge software being designed that way. I
cannot change the software as its probably above the technical
adjustments most of the users will be happy with.


Also as I have mentioned before the computer at the studio is still
missing syllables near the start of recordings no matter what we make
them with hardware wise, and I wondered if there is a utility we can
leaf running that will show maybe as a graph when ram or processor cores
max out during the session. It occurred to me that graphic changes audio
recording caching etc may well be the issue, and it only happens on the
newsbridge software which we have little control of, so if its buffer is
a bit smaller than say goldwave, it could easily skip a part of a second
went things get busy 4 gig of ram on a 4 core processor would seem to be
ample for audio use. Brian


--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html



  #4 (permalink)  
Old February 21st 18, 12:02 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,668
Default PC sound hardware need

OK. The Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 has two inputs which can be used eirher for
'mic' or 'line' inputs as you wish. It also has input gain controls and a
simple level indicator. So you can adjust the levels to suit. It provides a
headphone monitor output with its own volume control.

It also has two line outputs. But uses jacks/XLRs, so you may need adaptors
if you're using Phono plugs.

The page I referred to does show measured results. But mainly as graphs
which won't be much use from your POV. However its performance is clearly
better than the cheaper devices I tested.

It is powered via USB and is Class compliant.

Jim


In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
I did post this yesterday but its gone missing. it is simple its just an
analogue in line level line out card we need but the one we have has a
fixed monitor level, and hence cannot be controlled or indeed switched
of to allow editing of the recording.


its using software we have to use unfortunately called newsbridge which
has an imbalance between record and play levels in any case making the
issue worse. Brian


--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #5 (permalink)  
Old February 21st 18, 12:15 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Dave Plowman (News)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,872
Default PC sound hardware need

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
I did post this yesterday but its gone missing. it is simple its just an
analogue in line level line out card we need but the one we have has a
fixed monitor level, and hence cannot be controlled or indeed switched of
to allow editing of the recording.


Use an external speaker/amp with a volume control?

If you are stuck with a particular software, might be the easiest way.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old February 22nd 18, 08:22 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 637
Default PC sound hardware need

I already did this but the peoples refuse to use my switch.
What I have done is used the headphone out of the sound box, and in the
input I have a two position switch, so when playing back the input can
basically be disconnected. I like this solution, you just need to remember
to switch it back in when starting the recording. One has to realise that
the people operating this kit are not interested in the slightest in
computers, they never have recorded and want it to just work.
Being volunteers its hard enough to find anyone with the time or the
ability to talk and push buttons!
grin.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
I did post this yesterday but its gone missing. it is simple its just an
analogue in line level line out card we need but the one we have has a
fixed monitor level, and hence cannot be controlled or indeed switched
of
to allow editing of the recording.


Use an external speaker/amp with a volume control?

If you are stuck with a particular software, might be the easiest way.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman
London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.



  #7 (permalink)  
Old February 22nd 18, 08:23 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 637
Default PC sound hardware need

Reading about it it seems not to mention what I want to know, which is can
you change the monitor level through the device without affecting the other
levels, as it is this problem that causes the issue. its also expensive.
It seems rather overkill for a talking newspaper.
It should be a relatively simple voltage controlled attenuator inside the
unit, but the Behringer seems either not to have one or the drivers do not
support it, only having input output levels, the former not affecting the
monitor level, which is a little daft, though of course it actually affects
the true recording level.



I noticed some flashy software mentioned and it does rather inaccessible
stuff like change colour of halos on the sliders. Not a great help.


It sounds a very capable device but really a little over the top.
Its very annoying as I say as a cheapo soundblaster live card used to do
what is required perfectly, but I'm being told that in windows 7, there is
only a basic driver about as its now such an old device. Now if I wanted
surround sound that would be catered for in spades by the look of things!
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
OK. The Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 has two inputs which can be used eirher for
'mic' or 'line' inputs as you wish. It also has input gain controls and a
simple level indicator. So you can adjust the levels to suit. It provides
a
headphone monitor output with its own volume control.

It also has two line outputs. But uses jacks/XLRs, so you may need
adaptors
if you're using Phono plugs.

The page I referred to does show measured results. But mainly as graphs
which won't be much use from your POV. However its performance is clearly
better than the cheaper devices I tested.

It is powered via USB and is Class compliant.

Jim


In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
I did post this yesterday but its gone missing. it is simple its just an
analogue in line level line out card we need but the one we have has a
fixed monitor level, and hence cannot be controlled or indeed switched
of to allow editing of the recording.


its using software we have to use unfortunately called newsbridge which
has an imbalance between record and play levels in any case making the
issue worse. Brian


--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html



  #8 (permalink)  
Old February 22nd 18, 09:17 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,668
Default PC sound hardware need

No idea where you read some of the things you seem to be commenting upon.

However the 2i2 has input gain controls PLUS a Monitor level control PLUS a
headphone output level control. All real independent rotary pots on its
front panel. So you can monitor via the headphone socket and change that
level without altering the recording level.

Beyond that, I suspect from what you say that you may want the features but
then don't want to accept that they mean the unit will cost more than
something that has no such controls - so won't do what you want.

No idea what 'flashy software' you are referring to. It should work as a
standard USB 'sound device' with any software that can use USB audio
'soundcards'. if your OS can't handle that you may be stuck in the stone
age, I'm afraid.

BTW one of the points of using a good 24 bit/sample ADC is that you can
choose to record at a low level to stay well clear of clipping.

Good luck. :-)

Jim


In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Reading about it it seems not to mention what I want to know, which is
can you change the monitor level through the device without affecting
the other levels, as it is this problem that causes the issue. its also
expensive. It seems rather overkill for a talking newspaper. It should
be a relatively simple voltage controlled attenuator inside the unit,
but the Behringer seems either not to have one or the drivers do not
support it, only having input output levels, the former not affecting
the monitor level, which is a little daft, though of course it actually
affects the true recording level.




I noticed some flashy software mentioned and it does rather inaccessible
stuff like change colour of halos on the sliders. Not a great help.



It sounds a very capable device but really a little over the top. Its
very annoying as I say as a cheapo soundblaster live card used to do
what is required perfectly, but I'm being told that in windows 7, there
is only a basic driver about as its now such an old device. Now if I
wanted surround sound that would be catered for in spades by the look of
things! Brian


--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #9 (permalink)  
Old February 26th 18, 03:52 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,668
Default PC sound hardware need

In article , Bob Latham
wrote:


Jim, I remember you did some tests on one these devices and wrote it up
some time ago. Was the one you tested the 2nd generation one with 192/24
?


IIRC The Focusrite 2i2 I tested maxes at 96k/24 bit. If there is a '2nd
generation' 2i2 then I didn't have that so can't comment on it.

I have tested other devices that will capture 192k/24, but note that -
unsurprisingly - the cost rises!

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/ADC/USBrecording.html

The above shows the results I got from the types I suspect most people will
use, inc. the 2i2 which I thought the best of the bunch. I regard these as
general consumer/musician grade. They can work nicely in simple situations
if used with care

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/ADC/HighQualityADCs.html

Shows the more expensive ADCs I tested. Of these I preferred the Benchmark
ADC1. This will record at 192k/24, but its USB interface is limited to
96k/24 because they made it USB Audio Class 1 compliant. It is aimed at
studio use where at the time Windows required a driver for Class 2. However
I think the later Benchmark models are now switchable Class 1/2 and thus
can do 192k/24 via USB. But I'm happy with 96k/24 as all I'm doing is
making transfers from old LPs, tapes, etc. [1]

Frankly, I thought the performance of the benchmark in terms of noise, THD,
etc, are its key advantages. I doubt anyone outside of a pro studio in very
special cases will actually need 192k/24. Most mics, etc, won't produce
anything that needs it.

The Benchmark ADCs allow the user to have *three* digital outputs - via
different interfaces *and rates* in parallel. So you can capture to a
backup CD, USB, and a recorder that can take 192k, all at the same time. It
also have very precise level controls and a useful set of indicators.
Studio grade. But costs much more that something like the 2i2. So if you
want good kit I'd say look at the Benchmark range.


Is there a means of using a better power supply or isn't that necessary.


I did find that the 2i2 and other USB powered interfaces could pick up
rubbish from the USB power line. Use with a battery laptop or a well chosen
mains-powered external USB hub may thus reduce this. The challenge is then
to find a good hub and its PSU. Alas, this is a matter of experiment as the
makers aren't likely to specify this.

Jim

[1] FWIW For a good DAC I'd recommend the Benchmark DAC3 range. Again,
studio / pro grade results, but costs. USB Class 1/2, goes to 192k/24.
Unlike some alternatives allows a good margin for intersample 'overs'.
Handy for clipped material.

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #10 (permalink)  
Old February 26th 18, 10:00 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Vir Campestris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 64
Default PC sound hardware need

On 26/02/2018 16:52, Jim Lesurf wrote:
[1] FWIW For a good DAC I'd recommend the Benchmark DAC3 range. Again,
studio / pro grade results, but costs. USB Class 1/2, goes to 192k/24.
Unlike some alternatives allows a good margin for intersample 'overs'.
Handy for clipped material.


I've got a MOTU unit I use. But the reason it was bought was the ability
to record lots of channels at once; the fact that I can pull in my LPs
at 88.2/24 before claning them up for CD is a bonus.

Do you have any experience of them?

Andy
 




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