In article , Jim Lesurf
writes:

However the maths I used should be quite within the grasp of an honours
student in physical science or engineering. Tools of the trade. Although I
do wonder if people now use computer programs without a clue how they work.

At a brief perusal, I'd say it looks like an ideal opportunity to
extend my maths knowledge beyond the O-levels I did 45 years ago. And,
as an applications programmer, I can assure you that not only do our
users use programs without having a clue how they work, programmers
who inherit dreadfully-written [1] systems also don't have a clue how
they work, they just know that they almost always do.

[1] ie. any system composed of programs not written by them

--
Mike Fleming

On 24/02/2018 13:25, pamela wrote:

I can imagine some students might sign up for this and find more maths
than they expected. Well, I suppose it's no bad thing to grind a bit
of rigourous thought into young minds.


Rigorous thought? "Err, shall we go to the Black Bull tonight or the
King William IV?"

Students are just machines for converting parent's money into ****.

Bill

On 24/02/2018 20:37, Mike Fleming wrote:

programmers
who inherit dreadfully-written [1] systems also don't have a clue how
they work, they just know that they almost always do.

[1] ie. any system composed of programs not written by them

Back in the 1960s, I inherited some of them, poorly documented and
almost impossible to follow the logic because various conditions in past
records had set markers which following records checked for and took
alternate paths depending on what was set and what wasn't.

On the day that the output was noticeably wrong, it proved impossible to
work out what records had set what conditions that screwed up the
processing.

After trying to dry run it for a couple of hours, I decided that it
would be quicker and easier to rewrite the program from scratch, which I
ended up doing.

Jim

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
On 24/02/2018 18:11, Mark Carver wrote:
On 21/02/2018 15:29, Max Demian wrote:
On 21/02/2018 00:22, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I rather liked MiniDisc. For a while before computer based systems
arrived. Far better than NAB carts, and much cheaper too.

I assume you mean 8-tracks - they aren't quite the same.

No, I suspect Dave meant the NAB carts that were used in broadcasting to
play jingles, adverts, and sound effects. Industry standard from the 60s
until MD based systems came along to replace them. Today of course HDD
based/servers are used

So they used MiniDisc for jingles and adverts &c.?

I dunno. I certainly used them in place of carts. But not really for
jingles or adverts.

There were a few oddball systems around for a few years before servers
took over.

--
*There are two sides to every divorce: Yours and **** head's*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

lauantai 24. helmikuuta 2018 21.30.40 UTC+2 Max Demian kirjoitti:

So they used MiniDisc for jingles and adverts &c.?

Yes. The Denon DN-990 was the most popular machine for studio use.
It has data RS232 serial port, and D sub 25 pin. Analogue in and
outs are balanced XLR plus RCA. Digital in and out on AES/EBU.
Built like a tank. Excellent machine.

Iain

On 24/02/2018 19:30, Max Demian wrote:


So they used MiniDisc for jingles and adverts &c.?

Yep

https://rapmag.com/a/1990s/286-94/aug94/1164-test-drive-denon-dn-990r-and-dn-980f-minidisc-cart-recorder-and-player

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In article , Huge
wrote:
On 2018-02-24, Jim Lesurf wrote:

Although I do wonder if people now use computer programs without a
clue how they work.

O

You wonder? Wow. 99.99% of computer users haven't the faintest idea how
the programs they use work!

I was wondering how many professional engineers or scientists do so. e.g.
use tools like MathCad, etc, whilst having no real idea how they work or of
the commands they gave are the correct/relevant ones and can be expected to
give an appropriate 'answer'. More than once I've found (professional)
people engaging in GIGO.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article , RJH
wrote:
From a quick look, I'd have hoped so. I think (even) I can follow most
of the calculations, even if I don't understand the 'why' - say, the
basis of assumptions.

Incidentally, did many of your students enrol on non-honours degrees?

I lectured at St Andrews and Scotland runs a different educational system
to England. So I need to upack things a little to answer that.

Here we run a *four year* first degree course. This is because the
established arrangement in Scotland has been for school students to do a
*one year* 'highers' not a two-year 'A level'. So they come in a year
younger.

Again, conventionally here they take rather more than 3 or 4 subjects for
their 'highers' so have a broader base, with less depth.

To accomodate that the entry to 1st year is quite wide. And for those who
have done 'A levels' or equivalent there is the option to enter direct into
'second year'.

So the first two years (nominally) are not 'honours', but a wider class.
This then narrows down to two 'honours' years for the students who chose to
do physical sciences. They then can pick what courses they do.

My own honours courses would be given once every *two* years. So some
students did them in their 1st Hons year, others in 2nd Hons. This meant
more courses could be offerred overall.

Only a tiny number took a 'pass' degree. Most went though and got an
Honours degree of some type.

I think the bulk of the maths in what I taught would be easy enough for
most of them. But the key is in what you said. Understanding the 'why and
how' can be harder because this is where people need to twig the concepts
from which the maths can flow and give concrete answers to specific
questions.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article , RJH
wrote:


Actually, very minor thing - while the word search seems to work on
Acrobat on a Mac - it's very erratic using the native Mac pdf viewer
(Preview). Just saying :-)

Can't help with that I'm afraid. :-) I tend to use open source things like
GhostScript, etc, and the specific authoring stuff I use on RISC OS. But
note that the glyph/character mapping varies from one OS to another. So the
'Mac' might be making presumptions about 'spelling' which won't always be
correct. Depends on the glyph/character encoding chosen. Just a guess,
though.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Jim Lesurf wrote:

I was wondering how many professional engineers or scientists do so. e.g.
use tools like MathCad, etc, whilst having no real idea how they work or of
the commands they gave are the correct/relevant ones and can be expected to
give an appropriate 'answer'. More than once I've found (professional)
people engaging in GIGO.

Quite! It is clear that if you work to the appropriate Quality
Standards that you should be able to demonstrate that you have
verified that the calculations you perform give correct results,
and that input conditions and outputs are recorded auditably.

I recall one situation where a train performance program was
being used to work out the rating for a works locomotive, and it
was realised that altering the gradient of the tunnel in which it
was to be used had no impact on the output.

The relative ease of producing a spreadsheet can lead to
automatic belief in its results, and if the parameters keep being
altered, how easy is it to back track later to find where the
numbers came from?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.