On 12/04/2018 7:57 AM, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Trevor Wilson trevor@SPA
MBLOCKrageaudio.com.au scribeth thus
On 11/04/2018 7:26 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
Apart from the lack of extreme LF? Poor maximum SPL? Dreadful DP? Then
there is the fact that they simply won't work as intended in some rooms.

**I already explained, VERY CAREFULLY, that I make appropriate
allowances for speakers, according to their specific characteristics.

Apart, rather obviously, with the 3/5a which you describe as junk. Whose
designers should be shot. Without being able to give an example of speaker
designed at the same time which was better.

Don't think many loudspeaker manufacturers had an "on the tap" live
radio studio to help develop them..



As we would say in the UK, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about
them. ;-)

**I can only say that there are a large number of very stupid buyers and
a bunch of unscrupulous manufacturers and retailers, for the LS3/5a to
continue to survive well past it's use-by date.



Of course they can sound great when everything is going for them - but
then so can the 3/5a.

**Nope. Not in 2018. Not in 1993 and not in 1983.

You are simply wrong about that.


**Then you need to get out more. I showed you a speaker which
comprehensively outperforms the LS3/5a in every meaningful measure, at a
vastly lower price. It was released sometime around 1992-ish. And, as I
previously stated, I owned a pair back in 1980-ish. They didn't last
long. I replaced them with a pair of Infinty Infinitesimals. In all
fairness, I cannot state that the Infinitys were any cheaper. In fact, I
think they may have been a good deal more expensive. If that's the case,
then I don't regard it as a fair fight. The NEARs, OTOH, clobbered the
LS3/5as, at a significantly lower price.



Please sir Trevor if that was the case why aren't they going on fleabay
for a decent wedge like the old despised 5A's?..

**First off: I am an Australian and, thankfully, we have dispensed with
Royal honours.

Second off: NEAR speakers were not widely distributed and only for a
relatively short period. The company was purchased by a larger entity
whose bean counters looked at the numbers from the hi fi market and
promptly shut that side of the business down. In much the same way that
many companies have done before them (Apogee, et al). The other, far
more obvious reason is that the NEAR 10M is so damned good that no owner
wants to sell them. I expect that mine will not leave my side for the
foreseeable future.

[ASIDE] For one of my clients, I took a pair of NEAR 10M speakers and
removed the bits from the enclosure. I then commissioned a pair of cast
sand/resin enclosures, which, empty weighed in at around 22kg! I then
reassembled the boxes and installed the speakers into his listening
room. He still runs them, after more than 20 years. The client is in
shipping and has more money than God (if such a creature were to exist,
of course) and has the choice of any speaker.




I can't find any anywhere unless you can direct me?.

**Since they haven't been manufactured for some years, they will be hard
to locate.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
Second off: NEAR speakers were not widely distributed and only for a
relatively short period. The company was purchased by a larger entity
whose bean counters looked at the numbers from the hi fi market and
promptly shut that side of the business down. In much the same way that
many companies have done before them (Apogee, et al). The other, far
more obvious reason is that the NEAR 10M is so damned good that no owner
wants to sell them. I expect that mine will not leave my side for the
foreseeable future.

Given a company in the UK like Falcon - pretty small - has gone to the
bother of having things like the B110 and so on re-manufactured, and can
do complete kits to make your own 3/5a, wonder why they've not bothered to
re-manufacture this wonderful (and inexpensive) speaker of yours? If it
really is that good, would be a winner.

--
*Succeed, in spite of management *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/04/2018 9:29 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
Second off: NEAR speakers were not widely distributed and only for a
relatively short period. The company was purchased by a larger entity
whose bean counters looked at the numbers from the hi fi market and
promptly shut that side of the business down. In much the same way that
many companies have done before them (Apogee, et al). The other, far
more obvious reason is that the NEAR 10M is so damned good that no owner
wants to sell them. I expect that mine will not leave my side for the
foreseeable future.

Given a company in the UK like Falcon - pretty small - has gone to the
bother of having things like the B110 and so on re-manufactured, and can
do complete kits to make your own 3/5a, wonder why they've not bothered to
re-manufacture this wonderful (and inexpensive) speaker of yours? If it
really is that good, would be a winner.


**The NEAR drivers are unique and are what makes the speakers so
brilliant. They are also subject to a number of patents (which may, or
may not have run out). The KEF B110 driver, by comparison, is a very
simple thing to duplicate. Here's one NEAR patent:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5335287

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
Given a company in the UK like Falcon - pretty small - has gone to the
bother of having things like the B110 and so on re-manufactured, and
can do complete kits to make your own 3/5a, wonder why they've not
bothered to re-manufacture this wonderful (and inexpensive) speaker of
yours? If it really is that good, would be a winner.


**The NEAR drivers are unique and are what makes the speakers so
brilliant. They are also subject to a number of patents (which may, or
may not have run out). The KEF B110 driver, by comparison, is a very
simple thing to duplicate. Here's one NEAR patent:

So what? Unless you are trying to say something made 30 years ago can't be
reproduced today? Do they use unobtainium?

A patent for something no longer of commercial value is worthless too, BTW.

--
*The statement above is false

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

torstai 12. huhtikuuta 2018 2.40.03 UTC+3 Trevor Wilson kirjoitti:

**The NEAR drivers are unique and are what makes the speakers so
brilliant. They are also subject to a number of patents (which may, or
may not have run out). The KEF B110 driver, by comparison, is a very
simple thing to duplicate. Here's one NEAR patent:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5335287

NEAR still appear to be in business, and have found themselves an
interesting niche market in building speakers and amplifiers for
outdoor use, not festivals but gardens.

http://www.nearspeakers.com/

They seem to be part of the Bogen Group, which built very good mulitrack
tape heads back in the day.

Perhaps, as the speaker which Trevor recommends, is no longer in
production, this would be a good opportunity for some entrepreneur to
acquire the design and the tooling, and start to build this speaker again
on a license or royalty basis.

There is always room in this world for another good loudsspeaker:-)

Iain

In article ,
Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Given a company in the UK like Falcon - pretty small - has gone to the
bother of having things like the B110 and so on re-manufactured, and can
do complete kits to make your own 3/5a, wonder why they've not bothered
to re-manufacture this wonderful (and inexpensive) speaker of yours? If
it really is that good, would be a winner.

To be fair you have to consider that the B110 has been used in countless
designs over the year, far from just the LS3/5A. I could probably name at
least a dozen off the top of my head. Also, I'm pretty sure that at least
one of the people involved in Falcon was ex KEF.

All true.

But given Mr Wilson's insistence on how wonderful the NEAR was, it smacks
of some form of conspiracy to suppress it.

--
*The most common name in the world is Mohammed *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/04/2018 8:14 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Given a company in the UK like Falcon - pretty small - has gone to the
bother of having things like the B110 and so on re-manufactured, and can
do complete kits to make your own 3/5a, wonder why they've not bothered
to re-manufacture this wonderful (and inexpensive) speaker of yours? If
it really is that good, would be a winner.

To be fair you have to consider that the B110 has been used in countless
designs over the year, far from just the LS3/5A. I could probably name at
least a dozen off the top of my head. Also, I'm pretty sure that at least
one of the people involved in Falcon was ex KEF.

All true.

But given Mr Wilson's insistence on how wonderful the NEAR was, it smacks
of some form of conspiracy to suppress it.


**Don't be silly. The (true) hi fi industry is a minuscule part of the
audio business, which makes it a minuscule part of a small part of the
world's economy. NEAR drivers are (slightly) more expensive to
manufacture than regular drivers and, presumably, the bean counters saw
these facts and ceased production. Nothing more sinister than what
accountants do every day of the week - suck the joy out of life.

Make no mistake: Come the revolution, the lawyers and accountants will
be the first ones lined up against the wall.

:-)

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 12/04/2018 8:14 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Given a company in the UK like Falcon - pretty small - has gone to
the bother of having things like the B110 and so on re-manufactured,
and can do complete kits to make your own 3/5a, wonder why they've
not bothered to re-manufacture this wonderful (and inexpensive)
speaker of yours? If it really is that good, would be a winner.

To be fair you have to consider that the B110 has been used in
countless designs over the year, far from just the LS3/5A. I could
probably name at least a dozen off the top of my head. Also, I'm
pretty sure that at least one of the people involved in Falcon was ex
KEF.

All true.

But given Mr Wilson's insistence on how wonderful the NEAR was, it
smacks of some form of conspiracy to suppress it.


**Don't be silly. The (true) hi fi industry is a minuscule part of the
audio business, which makes it a minuscule part of a small part of the
world's economy. NEAR drivers are (slightly) more expensive to
manufacture than regular drivers and, presumably, the bean counters saw
these facts and ceased production. Nothing more sinister than what
accountants do every day of the week - suck the joy out of life.


I just find it odd that a speaker you consider the finest for its size and
unsurpassed since didn't sell by the million making a fortune for its
maker.

Make no mistake: Come the revolution, the lawyers and accountants will
be the first ones lined up against the wall.

:-)

--
*Go the extra mile. It makes your boss look like an incompetent slacker *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/04/2018 9:15 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 12/04/2018 8:14 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Given a company in the UK like Falcon - pretty small - has gone to
the bother of having things like the B110 and so on re-manufactured,
and can do complete kits to make your own 3/5a, wonder why they've
not bothered to re-manufacture this wonderful (and inexpensive)
speaker of yours? If it really is that good, would be a winner.

To be fair you have to consider that the B110 has been used in
countless designs over the year, far from just the LS3/5A. I could
probably name at least a dozen off the top of my head. Also, I'm
pretty sure that at least one of the people involved in Falcon was ex
KEF.

All true.

But given Mr Wilson's insistence on how wonderful the NEAR was, it
smacks of some form of conspiracy to suppress it.


**Don't be silly. The (true) hi fi industry is a minuscule part of the
audio business, which makes it a minuscule part of a small part of the
world's economy. NEAR drivers are (slightly) more expensive to
manufacture than regular drivers and, presumably, the bean counters saw
these facts and ceased production. Nothing more sinister than what
accountants do every day of the week - suck the joy out of life.


I just find it odd that a speaker you consider the finest for its size and
unsurpassed since didn't sell by the million making a fortune for its
maker.

**Hang on a sec. I said nothing of the kind. This is the second time in
this thread that you have made statements that you ascribe to me, that I
never said.

Let me be as clear as I can possibly be (pay close attention and do not
make silly assumptions):

The LS3/5a was, at it's inception, a decent enough speaker. In 2018, it
is WAY, WAY behind many speakers in it's (stupidly high) price range. By
1993-ish, when I first heard the NEAR 10M, the NEAR 10M was a MUCH
better speaker, in every meaningful metric and far less expensive. That
was 25 years ago.

I have heard a number of speakers that are significantly better than the
NEAR 10M (and 10M-II) since. I have not heard one that can best the NEAR
10M at what I would estimate its 2018 price to be (US$750.00).


I will re-state: There are significantly better speakers available, in
the NEAR 10Ms size range.

Clear?

What me to re-state?

Or will you continue to make absurd statements that you ascribe to me?


Make no mistake: Come the revolution, the lawyers and accountants will
be the first ones lined up against the wall.

:-)



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
I just find it odd that a speaker you consider the finest for its size and
unsurpassed since didn't sell by the million making a fortune for its
maker.

**Hang on a sec. I said nothing of the kind. This is the second time in
this thread that you have made statements that you ascribe to me, that I
never said.

Let me be as clear as I can possibly be (pay close attention and do not
make silly assumptions):

The LS3/5a was, at it's inception, a decent enough speaker.

Then why didn't you say so at the start?

Let me quote your first post on the subject:-

****************

From: Trevor Wilson
Subject: Speaker unit to baffle.
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2018 01:35
Newsgroups: uk.rec.audio

**The LS3/5a is the most over-rated piece of junk ever to be foisted on
the audio industry. It's continued existence is adequate evidence that
most listeners believe what some reviewers say, rather than listening
for themselves.

Don't get me started on LS3/5a speakers. And don't tell me how the BBC
designed them. The idiot who designed them should be shot.

*****************

So I take it you're now retracting most of that?




In 2018, it
is WAY, WAY behind many speakers in it's (stupidly high) price range. By
1993-ish, when I first heard the NEAR 10M, the NEAR 10M was a MUCH
better speaker, in every meaningful metric and far less expensive. That
was 25 years ago.

But apparently by its lack of popularity likely just your opinion. A small
high quality speaker is the holy grail for many. No matter where it's
made.

I have heard a number of speakers that are significantly better than the
NEAR 10M (and 10M-II) since. I have not heard one that can best the NEAR
10M at what I would estimate its 2018 price to be (US$750.00).

Thing is, if you come out with outrageous comments about what was (and
still is) a well regarded speaker, why do you expect people to believe
your opinion on any?


I will re-state: There are significantly better speakers available, in
the NEAR 10Ms size range.

Clear?

What me to re-state?

Or will you continue to make absurd statements that you ascribe to me?

Are you claiming you didn't make the statement I've quoted above?


Make no mistake: Come the revolution, the lawyers and accountants will
be the first ones lined up against the wall.


--
*Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.