"Ian Iveson" wrote in message
. uk...
...pause due to official sulk on RAT, hence removal from xpost...

Keith G wrote

I would rather the question be whether similarly priced Chinese
amps are better than mine. Answer is, not in the UK AFAIK.

You don't know because you haven't heard one. I don't know because
I haven't heard one of yours.

I know cyanide is poison, but I have never tasted it.


I *believe* so - I've never tasted it either (AFAIK).....

(Interesting it's used to *prevent* filament poisening though, isn't it?
:-)



Backup?? ;-)

Solemn promise. But on this issue Patrick is correct to say that
component guarantees must be available from suppliers, either
explicitly or by reputation. I would never put myself in the
position of passing on unknown risk to end users. Chinese components
would be out of contention unless sold by a reputable UK supplier.


Not a problem to me....



Huh? Who's talking about 'bespoke' - you buy these off the
shelf....

Yes, but I don't have a shelf.


:-(

I'll make you one if you want....??


At the kind of prices I suggested, no
off-the-shelf manufacturer can compete with bespoke. Or for that
matter with DIY, which will get you the best possible deal...as long
as you don't go through the dreary, expensive, "start with something
rubbish" routine that I see advocated by some.


My point is that I don't think the Chinky amps are rubbish (FWIW) - I don't
claim them to be the best available either, I just say they are *excellent*
VFM and are a good way of prising open a very stiff door....


I wouldn't know. All this is like some crazy dream to me...I came
from RAT, er, I think. I would guess the people of which you speak
wouldn't change. Is Stewart there? Or Arny?


Did *I* mention either of them...??

:-)


We know we can hear
distortion, so why should we subject ourselves to it willy-nilly,
unnecessarily?


Keep it real - here, ther words distortion and colouration are used to
describe the effects some kit has on the signal. I'm only interested in what
I *hear* - I'm not a 'designer'....


One of the dangers of decent valve amps. I can't lift my power
supply for fear of aggravating a damaged tendon from last time I
lifted it.


Dragging one down to my car is no easy task either!!


You really aren't getting the point are you?- Tese amps cost
NOWT!! If they only switched on and warmed up it would be
reasonable enough comparedwith Western prices. The fact that sound
comes out of them is a bonus (via the speakers, for the pedants),
but the biggest bonus of all is that sound *fine* - they exibit
all the qualities I look for in 'SE triodes'!!


There is no point in going through all the subjective/objective
stuff with me.


Fine and there's no point in battering me with 'factoids' - I use my ears to
choose what I like. (And get 2nd opinions for interest, when the opportunity
presents....)


I have experimented enough to know that there is some
correlation between what I hear via my very non-exotic loudspeakers,
and the actual performance of the amplifiers driving them.


Of course....



Many valve amps are reputed to have a beguiling, "euphonic" kind of
sound. I believe much of that depends on your speakers,



No argument there - the speakers *or* the amp is/are nothing - the
*combination of both* is all....


and the rest
is a matter of taste. My speakers are not naturally tuneful, so they
need to be bullied. This is true of the majority of mainstream
speakers. I value precision and "air".


I value clarity and 'air' - no good being 'accurate' if you can't bloody
hear it, is there?



Now, the interesting bit, they haven't put me off wanting a *top
quality* 300B SET - they made me want it even more! Which is why I
say they are a Good THing - they are getting more people through
the door and, as I have said many times now, if these people are
'similarly hooked' they *could* become future customers of yours!!

Crikey. Never thought of that.


No, most people are so quick to get their dicks out and start ****ing they
don't see the bigger picture. If someone wants a
'bigger/posher/better/whatever' valve amp (it's called Upgradeitis) they
*can't* do any other than buy a domestic/'Western' product, can they? :-)

(At the moment...... ;-)



I haven't said they are crap. Patrick has.


:-)


I have said I don't like
the look of them, which is fair enough since look at them is all I
can do.


Which is exactly why I put my hand into my pocket - to find out for myself!
You could always do the same or you are welcome to have scrute of mine, like
I said!




Sour grapes? Me? Why? I offered to make you a great amp out of the
goodness of my heart. No skin off my nose if you don't want me to.


If it's a freebie, I'll take it....


Don't want to make a 300B amp anyway, so there.


No, I'm alright for those but I'll take a 211 amp (of your choosing) if you
want...


And I would need to
borrow your speakers, and maybe your room too. You would be much
better off making one yourself.


It's not ruled out for the future, unless I get lazy and just go with what
I've got....??



Fancy KT88 PP? A much more likely candidate for most ordinary
domestic situations.


Got one thanks.


interrupts typing to take delivery of 4 pcs NOS Mullard CV4024!!
:-)))

(Never fails to get me a bit excited, getting valves - stoopid
innit?? :-)

Not at all, if you are replacing Chinese "equivalents":-)


C'mon, you know better than that....



... Makes getting *any* stainlesss a bonus dunnit??

I can only tolerate its appearance if it is yellowish rather than
blue in hue. It is also a poor conductor. Not much going for it IMO


I didn't *choose* s/s - it just came with the amp....



Takes a lot to impress Jamaicans! ;-)

But they can be suckers for their national colours ;-)


And BMWs..... :-)


snip toast digression



These amps are no less 'fixable' than most and at the price they
are almost 'disposable'!!

I see...what were you saying about attractive sales patter?


I dunno now - that's lost on me...???


Incredible - that's gonna *herd* people into your shop innit?

Shop? What do you take me for sir? True value finds its own trustee.


I'm sure you're not one of those 'arrogant' types who believes the world
*will* beat a path to his door...???

(Even Honda spends a couple of bob on advertising....)


Asitappens, I advise people to think long and hard about valves -
I say they are not for everybody.

I think a decent valve amp has the advantage in terms of musical
performance, but most are let down badly by inconvenience. None of
the bad sonic traits of poor valve amps are necessary, but the size,
weight and heat output are naturally problematic.


Sure.


Unreliability is definitely not necessary these days but is common
nonetheless. Maintenance requirements can be eliminated in
principle, but development cost counts against automation and,
arguably, punters want dials and meters to play with. To my mind
that alone excludes us from the mainstream.


Convenience is the No. 1 priority with Joe Ordinaire - and blue LEDs....



The best toast comes from under the grill, but it's a dangerous
occupation - them grills don't switch themselves off!!

Quite. I daren't grill anything of high calorific value for fear of
yet another kitchen meltdown.


Another?


I threw out the chip pan years ago.


OK, say no more....


Why should it? I say they are good enough to get people hooked.
Then come your turn if you want it. People chasing 4 figures of
money into 'names' like Roksan/Cyrus/Arcam etc. aren't ever going
to be any use to you.

More use than ppl looking for cheapness. Anyway, I'm gonna be a
guru...wait 'til you see the Arcam "Iveson Signature" range :-)



OK, I'll start saving up.... :-)



Very few people would have the right kind of speakers IMO.



Yes, see my many references to amp/speaker 'synergy'....



FWIW, a number of visitors (including a couple here) put my 2A3
SET down as my *best* amp - I don't give a rat's, I like them
all....

How much do you want for those speakers?


Which ones?

Want me to build you a pair? :-)




OK. If you ever find yourself coming down the A1 to (or past)
Huntingdon gimme a shout.

Certainly. I'll bring my amps if I can get help lifting the power
supply.


That would be reet nice! :-)



What's the bass like at volume into
ordinary mainstream speakers?

Interesting question - I've never tried them (the 300Bs) on
anything but my own homebrew speakers. I'll drag the B&W DM2As
round to them some time soon.


(It'll have to be quick - I've just had an email on them!! :-)



I seriously think the speaker issue is the undoing of your entire
plot, I'm afraid. Good speakers for SETs are not cheap, and why
would anyone buy a cheap amp for expensive speakers? They could make
their own speaks, but then they may just as well make their own amps
too. You are likely to end up just pandering to a passing fashion.


No that was just a meandering ramble....



For me this would not be a successful sales pitch. I am an
optimiser, and don't have time to listen to everything. I need
comparable, objective evidence so I can eliminate the chaff.


Fine, use a meter then...

(Tim De P just puts a record on and tries every 'value' in the box, I'm
told....???)



Continuing economic growth without a regressive revolution will be
tricky. I wouldn't risk my paltry wealth falling into the hands of
either communists or warlords. I wish them every success, but can't
afford to bet on it.


Really?

I only recently found out my Bank - the Yorkshire Bank (Where do you live -
Bradford?) is owned by the 'Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation'.....

http://www.hsbc.com.hk/hk/home/

:-)


(YHFL....!!!)