"Rob" wrote in message
om...
David Looser wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message
snip

As far as chartered engineer status is concerned I'm not aware of any
awarding body that doesn't demand both relevant qualifications and proven
experience before conferring the title.

Blimey David, this isn't difficult. Have a look at p.12 of the C.Eng
competency standard. These are examples of non-formal qualifications that
can count in lieu of accredited degrees: Writing a technical report, based
upon their experience, and demonstrating their knowledge and understanding
of engineering principles; Following an assessed work-based learning
programme.

OK I've looked. You are correct that it is not essential to have an
accredited qualification. But I also noticed that it then went on to say
"For CEng registration, this knowledge and understanding is set at Master's
degree level". I wonder how one is going to acquire such knowledge and
understanding without formal training? I suggest that the word "accredited"
is important here. It's not that they expect the self-taught to be able to
take advantage of this route, rather it will be those who's qualifications
are not, for whatever reason, accredited.

If I've got this right the Engineering Council confers the 'Chartered'
bit, and accredits (that is, gives full exemption from written quals), or
recognises (partial exemption) awards.

I'm not sure I follow the above. Accreditation applies to courses and
qualification awarding bodies. Thus a student who takes and passes such an
accredited course has already achieved the qualification part of gaining
CEng status.

Then there's an element of practical experience that EC UK prescribes.

Precisely.


Ah, OK - we can differ on what counts as a profession. I assume therefore
you don't count surveying, law, teaching, planning and accountancy as
'professions'. But you do count flying. And architecture. This isn't
working, is it?

I wonder why you assume I don't count law? Are you suggesting that it's
possible to work as a lawyer without qualifications? And school teachers
must have a teaching qualification (itself equivalent to a first degree) as
well (for secondary school teachers) as a degree in one's specialist
subject.

I'd take it you spit at the mention of 'professional footballer' :-)

The "professions" is a rather old-fashioned notion, long pre-dating
professional footballers. But one can be a "professional" anything if it's
what one does to earn one's crust.


We have processes called APL/APCL/APEL - accreditation for prior
certificated/experiential learning. It's commonly accepted that in a lot
of cases it's actually easier (and in some cases cheaper) to do the
qualification than jump through the accreditation hoops.

I agree, with the proviso that I'd say "most cases", rather than "a lot of
cases"

But I'd stress that I think this system is flawed - it forces a huge
measure of compliance with institutional practice.

I wouldn't disagree with that. The ever increasing tendency to insist that
people hold certificates to be allowed to do what they do is not something I
am entirely happy with. Of course it does weed out the truly incompetent,
but it also inhibits innovation and individuality as well. I recently took a
teaching course (the short one for adult training, not the full
school-teachers course) and I was frankly appalled at the "one size fits
all" mentality of the course syllabus and the accrediting body.

David.