In article , Jim H
writes

I would agree, although I'm not sure how that would be done - isn't that
just a natural result of better fidelity?

I have two freeview boxes, A Pioneer and a Sony. They work equally well in
most the time but the Sony cuts in and out during heavy rain and when I
turn the lights on.

That's almost certainly due to a marginal aerial signal. Almost without
exception the DTV signals are transmitted over a much wider channel
range that the original TV channel plan.

Also the cable that you use as a down lead is likely to be the older
low-loss type more modern ones such as CT100 are far better...

My point is, with digital better fidelity means better at recovering data.
If high-end dacs were good at this they would find it harder to justify
ridiculous CD transport prices.


--
Tony Sayer

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

Not 'necessary', but it does help an outboard DAC to approach the
quality of a one-box player. generally, much better to buy a better
player than to use an outboard DAC for CD replay.

Judging by the prices that DACs are going for, I'm thinking that this would
be a good improvement over the existing setup for less than the cost of a
comparable player. My mate's £500 Arcam player has quickly established
itself as something of a benchmark - I'd like to approach, or improve on,
that sort of quality if feasible. My thinking is that, when my existing
player starts to bite the dust, I could look at getting a transport that can
take a timing signal from a DAC. Is it a standard signal for all (most?)
transports/DACs, or is it rather proprietary?


I'm sure an oscilloscope is a much cheaper approach... ;-)

Actually, he's being coy. 'Better kit' in this case most certainly
does *not* include DACs which can't suppress jitter in the datastream,
but they certainly cost a lot of money, and they do sound bad! :-)

Do you mean DACs that use a sync signal to control jitter, as opposed to
those which can take a raw datastream and make the best (or better) of it?
Would a DAC which has a sync output and a bunch of oversampling be the right
thing to go chasing after?


As noted, try Meridian DACs - they sound good and they do a good job
of suppressing jitter. I'm not sure that you'll notice much difference
between the original 203 and the later models, as they always had the
engineering pretty well spot on.

Duly noted.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest work: The Langlois Bridge (after Van Gogh)

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

Not 'necessary', but it does help an outboard DAC to approach the
quality of a one-box player. generally, much better to buy a better
player than to use an outboard DAC for CD replay.

Judging by the prices that DACs are going for, I'm thinking that this would
be a good improvement over the existing setup for less than the cost of a
comparable player. My mate's £500 Arcam player has quickly established
itself as something of a benchmark - I'd like to approach, or improve on,
that sort of quality if feasible. My thinking is that, when my existing
player starts to bite the dust, I could look at getting a transport that can
take a timing signal from a DAC. Is it a standard signal for all (most?)
transports/DACs, or is it rather proprietary?


I'm sure an oscilloscope is a much cheaper approach... ;-)

Actually, he's being coy. 'Better kit' in this case most certainly
does *not* include DACs which can't suppress jitter in the datastream,
but they certainly cost a lot of money, and they do sound bad! :-)

Do you mean DACs that use a sync signal to control jitter, as opposed to
those which can take a raw datastream and make the best (or better) of it?
Would a DAC which has a sync output and a bunch of oversampling be the right
thing to go chasing after?


As noted, try Meridian DACs - they sound good and they do a good job
of suppressing jitter. I'm not sure that you'll notice much difference
between the original 203 and the later models, as they always had the
engineering pretty well spot on.

Duly noted.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest work: The Langlois Bridge (after Van Gogh)

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Jim Lesurf wrote:

Afraid I don't know anything about the DVD/CD player you have, so
can't really comment on it as such...

Silver-fronted jobbie. Asda were flogging them for £100 a few months ago.
Last seen at 70 quid before disappearing.


Wal-Mart sell Apex ones for 45 dollars or so, would be about 30 quid in the
UK.
and post Thanks-giving day sale they were $29.95 for a morning.
they have one playing movies on a TV and quite good pic quality.
silly prices now, don't know what the postage would be from the USA to the
UK,
and whether the customs would slap import duty on one.
regards malcolm

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Jim Lesurf wrote:

Afraid I don't know anything about the DVD/CD player you have, so
can't really comment on it as such...

Silver-fronted jobbie. Asda were flogging them for £100 a few months ago.
Last seen at 70 quid before disappearing.


Wal-Mart sell Apex ones for 45 dollars or so, would be about 30 quid in the
UK.
and post Thanks-giving day sale they were $29.95 for a morning.
they have one playing movies on a TV and quite good pic quality.
silly prices now, don't know what the postage would be from the USA to the
UK,
and whether the customs would slap import duty on one.
regards malcolm

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:44:54 GMT
"Wally" wrote:


Do you mean DACs that use a sync signal to control jitter, as opposed
to those which can take a raw datastream and make the best (or better)
of it? Would a DAC which has a sync output and a bunch of oversampling
be the right thing to go chasing after?

No. the jitter on SPDIF will only minimally impact the output on a well
designed dac.

a 'reclocked' signal is almost garaunteed to be a worse output (not
necessarily distinguishable, mind) quality output.

With the 'async' SPDIF you will hear every bit correctly (and thats
still dependant on the conversion method). with a reclocked output,
given the clock will NEVER be a perfect match for the SPDIF clock
anyway, you are garaunteed to either drop or stretch a whole bit at some
point. ick.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:44:54 GMT
"Wally" wrote:


Do you mean DACs that use a sync signal to control jitter, as opposed
to those which can take a raw datastream and make the best (or better)
of it? Would a DAC which has a sync output and a bunch of oversampling
be the right thing to go chasing after?

No. the jitter on SPDIF will only minimally impact the output on a well
designed dac.

a 'reclocked' signal is almost garaunteed to be a worse output (not
necessarily distinguishable, mind) quality output.

With the 'async' SPDIF you will hear every bit correctly (and thats
still dependant on the conversion method). with a reclocked output,
given the clock will NEVER be a perfect match for the SPDIF clock
anyway, you are garaunteed to either drop or stretch a whole bit at some
point. ick.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:05:11 GMT, "malcolm"
wrote:

Wal-Mart sell Apex ones for 45 dollars or so, would be about 30 quid in the
UK.
and post Thanks-giving day sale they were $29.95 for a morning.
they have one playing movies on a TV and quite good pic quality.
silly prices now, don't know what the postage would be from the USA to the
UK,
and whether the customs would slap import duty on one.

To say nothing of the probable need for a step-down power transformer.

Kal

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:05:11 GMT, "malcolm"
wrote:

Wal-Mart sell Apex ones for 45 dollars or so, would be about 30 quid in the
UK.
and post Thanks-giving day sale they were $29.95 for a morning.
they have one playing movies on a TV and quite good pic quality.
silly prices now, don't know what the postage would be from the USA to the
UK,
and whether the customs would slap import duty on one.

To say nothing of the probable need for a step-down power transformer.

Kal

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 20:00:26 -0500
Kalman Rubinson wrote:

To say nothing of the probable need for a step-down power transformer.

Actually a LOT of modern equipment uses SMPSUs, which are (these days)
designed to run between 90 and 250V typically, and so will work fine
wherever...

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.