"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Keith G wrote:

Who says valves have to produce a non-linear output? you can build
perfectly linear valve amps if you try. A linear valve amp and a
linear SS amp rated to driev the same loads, will sound *identical*
to each other in any measurable way.

'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference
in the sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.

So is there something that makes the sound quality better, but isn't
measurable?


Valves? You either *get it* or you don't - no biggie either way.......

Too right. You can't beat the valve sound. I wonder what my 4-20 would sound
like if I put a guitar at one end, a couple of Celestions at the other, and
cranked it up... :-)


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
On webcam: Black Cat In Coal Cellar

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Wally wrote:
Keith G wrote:


Who says valves have to produce a non-linear output? you can build
perfectly linear valve amps if you try. A linear valve amp and a
linear SS amp rated to driev the same loads, will sound *identical*
to each other in any measurable way.


'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference
in the sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.


So is there something that makes the sound quality better, but isn't
measurable?



Valves? You either *get it* or you don't - no biggie either way.......


Too right. You can't beat the valve sound. I wonder what my 4-20 would sound
like if I put a guitar at one end, a couple of Celestions at the other, and
cranked it up... :-)


I suspect not as good as you would hope, guitar valve amps are designed
to be intentionally poor in HiFi terms. OPTX's that saturate, power
supplies that sag etc.

--
Nick

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Wally wrote:
Keith G wrote:


Who says valves have to produce a non-linear output? you can build
perfectly linear valve amps if you try. A linear valve amp and a
linear SS amp rated to driev the same loads, will sound *identical*
to each other in any measurable way.


'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference
in the sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.


So is there something that makes the sound quality better, but isn't
measurable?



Valves? You either *get it* or you don't - no biggie either way.......


Too right. You can't beat the valve sound. I wonder what my 4-20 would sound
like if I put a guitar at one end, a couple of Celestions at the other, and
cranked it up... :-)


I suspect not as good as you would hope, guitar valve amps are designed
to be intentionally poor in HiFi terms. OPTX's that saturate, power
supplies that sag etc.

--
Nick

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Nick Gorham wrote:

I suspect not as good as you would hope, guitar valve amps are
designed to be intentionally poor in HiFi terms. OPTX's that
saturate, power supplies that sag etc.

But there's no feeling in the world that comes close to standing 5 feet from
an 8 x 12 Marshall stack with a low slung '59 Les Paul, playing BIG power
chords and riding the sustain...

Compare that to the 'real' (i.e unamplified) sound of said '59 Les Paul and
all notions of the amp being there merely to amplify the sound in the purest
possible terms instantly go out of the window ;-))))

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Nick Gorham wrote:

I suspect not as good as you would hope, guitar valve amps are
designed to be intentionally poor in HiFi terms. OPTX's that
saturate, power supplies that sag etc.

But there's no feeling in the world that comes close to standing 5 feet from
an 8 x 12 Marshall stack with a low slung '59 Les Paul, playing BIG power
chords and riding the sustain...

Compare that to the 'real' (i.e unamplified) sound of said '59 Les Paul and
all notions of the amp being there merely to amplify the sound in the purest
possible terms instantly go out of the window ;-))))

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Nick Gorham wrote:

Too right. You can't beat the valve sound. I wonder what my 4-20
would sound like if I put a guitar at one end, a couple of
Celestions at the other, and cranked it up... :-)

I suspect not as good as you would hope, guitar valve amps are
designed to be intentionally poor in HiFi terms. OPTX's that
saturate, power supplies that sag etc.

I'll stick with the valve guitar amps, then. :-)

I'd imagine it would sound very clean before it started overdriving,
although the speakers would add their own voicing in any case.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
On webcam: Black Cat In Coal Cellar

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Nick Gorham wrote:

Too right. You can't beat the valve sound. I wonder what my 4-20
would sound like if I put a guitar at one end, a couple of
Celestions at the other, and cranked it up... :-)

I suspect not as good as you would hope, guitar valve amps are
designed to be intentionally poor in HiFi terms. OPTX's that
saturate, power supplies that sag etc.

I'll stick with the valve guitar amps, then. :-)

I'd imagine it would sound very clean before it started overdriving,
although the speakers would add their own voicing in any case.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
On webcam: Black Cat In Coal Cellar

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:26:40 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:

'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference in
the
sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.

Excuse me?

Are you suggesting that should the two theoretical amps be connected to
speakers and put the *exact same* voltages across them, that the speakers
will respond differently?


Ian, I can swap between a decent Technics mosfet/bipolar power amp
(SE-A2000) and a pair of Dynaco Mk IIIs leaving everything else common
(record, deck, cart, phono stage, pre-amp, speakers, cables, interconnects )
and a blind man could hear the difference whether you match voltages SPLs or
whatever. Trust me....



If so, thats great, I can get that 'valve sound' by nailing a valve to the
lid of my Quad405...


You mean you haven't tried that already???

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:26:40 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:

'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference in
the
sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.

Excuse me?

Are you suggesting that should the two theoretical amps be connected to
speakers and put the *exact same* voltages across them, that the speakers
will respond differently?


Ian, I can swap between a decent Technics mosfet/bipolar power amp
(SE-A2000) and a pair of Dynaco Mk IIIs leaving everything else common
(record, deck, cart, phono stage, pre-amp, speakers, cables, interconnects )
and a blind man could hear the difference whether you match voltages SPLs or
whatever. Trust me....



If so, thats great, I can get that 'valve sound' by nailing a valve to the
lid of my Quad405...


You mean you haven't tried that already???

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:26:40 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Ian Molton" wrote

Who says valves have to produce a non-linear output? you can build
perfectly linear valve amps if you try. A linear valve amp and a linear
SS amp rated to driev the same loads, will sound *identical* to each
other in any measurable way.

'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference in
the
sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.

Which part of 'will *sound* identical' did you fail to understand?


Which part of 'measurable' did you fail to understand?