"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:20:14 -0000, "Stimpy"
wrote:

Nick Gorham wrote:

I suspect not as good as you would hope, guitar valve amps are
designed to be intentionally poor in HiFi terms. OPTX's that
saturate, power supplies that sag etc.

But there's no feeling in the world that comes close to standing 5
feet from an 8 x 12 Marshall stack with a low slung '59 Les Paul,
playing BIG power chords and riding the sustain...

Compare that to the 'real' (i.e unamplified) sound of said '59 Les
Paul and all notions of the amp being there merely to amplify the
sound in the purest possible terms instantly go out of the window
;-))))

Yes, but no one *ever* suggested that this has anything to do with
*reproducing* that sound at home.

Reproducing it? I was talking about playing it at home :-))))

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Andy Evans wrote:
But there's no feeling in the world that comes close to standing 5
feet from an 8 x 12 Marshall stack with a low slung '59 Les Paul,
playing BIG power chords and riding the sustain...

How about standing 4 feet from an 8 x 12 Marshall stack with a low
slung '58 Les Paul, playing BIGGER power chords and riding the
sustain...

Cah! Some people have no sense of restraint! :-)

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Andy Evans wrote:
But there's no feeling in the world that comes close to standing 5
feet from an 8 x 12 Marshall stack with a low slung '59 Les Paul,
playing BIG power chords and riding the sustain...

How about standing 4 feet from an 8 x 12 Marshall stack with a low
slung '58 Les Paul, playing BIGGER power chords and riding the
sustain...

Cah! Some people have no sense of restraint! :-)

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Ian Molton wrote:

So is there something that makes the sound quality better, but isn't
measurable?

No.

A linear class A valve and SS amp will sound absolutely, 100%
totally, utterly, and completely the same.

now find me a totally linear valve or SS amp ;-)

If there is no such thing in either category, then, are there differences in
their non-lienarity that might make the types distibuishable?


You can't beat the valve sound. I wonder what my 4-20 would sound
like if I put a guitar at one end, a couple of Celestions at the
other, and cranked it up... :-)

Ouch! transients!

A cranked amp flattens transients and turns them into tone.


Im calling the Royal Society For the Prevenion of Cruelty to
Loudspeakers

Nah, my Celestions have had far worse kickings than a 20W amp can ever hope
to dish out.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
On webcam: Black Cat In Coal Cellar

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Ian Molton wrote:

So is there something that makes the sound quality better, but isn't
measurable?

No.

A linear class A valve and SS amp will sound absolutely, 100%
totally, utterly, and completely the same.

now find me a totally linear valve or SS amp ;-)

If there is no such thing in either category, then, are there differences in
their non-lienarity that might make the types distibuishable?


You can't beat the valve sound. I wonder what my 4-20 would sound
like if I put a guitar at one end, a couple of Celestions at the
other, and cranked it up... :-)

Ouch! transients!

A cranked amp flattens transients and turns them into tone.


Im calling the Royal Society For the Prevenion of Cruelty to
Loudspeakers

Nah, my Celestions have had far worse kickings than a 20W amp can ever hope
to dish out.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
On webcam: Black Cat In Coal Cellar

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:26:40 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:

'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference
in
the
sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.

Excuse me?

Are you suggesting that should the two theoretical amps be connected to
speakers and put the *exact same* voltages across them, that the
speakers
will respond differently?


Ian, I can swap between a decent Technics mosfet/bipolar power amp
(SE-A2000) and a pair of Dynaco Mk IIIs leaving everything else common
(record, deck, cart, phono stage, pre-amp, speakers, cables,
interconnects
) and a blind man could hear the difference whether you match voltages
SPLs or whatever. Trust me....


That doesn't surprise but then I bet they don't have identical specs
anyway.



Actually, blind men don't wear specs - they mostly wear shades......

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:26:40 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:

'Measure' being the operative word. In the real world the difference
in
the
sound *quality* is night and day AFAIAC.

Excuse me?

Are you suggesting that should the two theoretical amps be connected to
speakers and put the *exact same* voltages across them, that the
speakers
will respond differently?


Ian, I can swap between a decent Technics mosfet/bipolar power amp
(SE-A2000) and a pair of Dynaco Mk IIIs leaving everything else common
(record, deck, cart, phono stage, pre-amp, speakers, cables,
interconnects
) and a blind man could hear the difference whether you match voltages
SPLs or whatever. Trust me....


That doesn't surprise but then I bet they don't have identical specs
anyway.



Actually, blind men don't wear specs - they mostly wear shades......

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:49:39 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:


Ian, I can swap between a decent Technics mosfet/bipolar power amp
(SE-A2000) and a pair of Dynaco Mk IIIs leaving everything else common
(record, deck, cart, phono stage, pre-amp, speakers, cables,
interconnects )
and a blind man could hear the difference whether you match voltages
SPLs or
whatever. Trust me....

I'd be willing to bet there are detectable differences in the output of
those amps.



So would I, even at "*exact same* voltages"......

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:49:39 -0000
"Keith G" wrote:


Ian, I can swap between a decent Technics mosfet/bipolar power amp
(SE-A2000) and a pair of Dynaco Mk IIIs leaving everything else common
(record, deck, cart, phono stage, pre-amp, speakers, cables,
interconnects )
and a blind man could hear the difference whether you match voltages
SPLs or
whatever. Trust me....

I'd be willing to bet there are detectable differences in the output of
those amps.



So would I, even at "*exact same* voltages"......

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

"Stimpy" wrote in message
...
Nick Gorham wrote:

I suspect not as good as you would hope, guitar valve amps are
designed to be intentionally poor in HiFi terms. OPTX's that
saturate, power supplies that sag etc.

But there's no feeling in the world that comes close to standing 5 feet
from
an 8 x 12 Marshall stack with a low slung '59 Les Paul, playing BIG power
chords and riding the sustain...



There is, as it happens, but you would need an 80's 1,000cc Jap Sports bike
to experience it.......

;-)