"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:01:46 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:


The graphics
ASICs I know best are the ones made by my employer (Matrox) and they
use 10 bit DACs that run up to 400MHz, with no look up tables in 16,
24, 30 or 32 bits per pixel. Gamma tables however, are stored in
programmable 10 bit LUTs.

if they are purely GAMMA they wont be 'tables' in a normal sense.
however they may well just be general putpose LUTs - are you SURE you
can only program them with gamma values? are then not in fact directly
addressable ?

I don't know how it's done, but most recent nvidia cards provide a lot
more than just gamma.
I've uploaded a (low quality) shot of the setup in windows. This
functionality is not currently exposed in the linux drivers.

Even the nvidia advanced mode seems like a very simplified model.

http://users.aber.ac.uk/jqh1/desk.gif

--
Jim H jh
@333
.org

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:01:46 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:


The graphics
ASICs I know best are the ones made by my employer (Matrox) and they
use 10 bit DACs that run up to 400MHz, with no look up tables in 16,
24, 30 or 32 bits per pixel. Gamma tables however, are stored in
programmable 10 bit LUTs.

if they are purely GAMMA they wont be 'tables' in a normal sense.
however they may well just be general putpose LUTs - are you SURE you
can only program them with gamma values? are then not in fact directly
addressable ?

I don't know how it's done, but most recent nvidia cards provide a lot
more than just gamma.
I've uploaded a (low quality) shot of the setup in windows. This
functionality is not currently exposed in the linux drivers.

Even the nvidia advanced mode seems like a very simplified model.

http://users.aber.ac.uk/jqh1/desk.gif

--
Jim H jh
@333
.org

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Kurt Hamster wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:50:16 +0000, Ian Bell used
to say...

Kurt Hamster wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:55:20 +0000, Ian Molton used
to say...

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:31:17 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote:

I'm not dumb enough to spend fortunes (and lots of man hours)
attempting to find out which are bad recordings and which aren't.

Its not hard. if it sounds crap, its bad. since upgrading to my DAC and
replacing my old amp, I can *clearly* hear defects in recordings that
were bad before.

Well there ya go, concentrating on the recording rather than the music
:(


Don't suppose it occured to you that some of us actually know what a
genuine performance actually sounds like and a poor recording is as much a
distraction as a poor performance.

Exactly my point. So why have a system that highlights a bad recording
thereby distracting one from the performance?

It ain't rocket science.

Simple, because any system that masks recording faults will mask the
performance also. When I buy Cornflakes I expect Cornflakes not Sugar
Frosties.

Ian

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Kurt Hamster wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:50:16 +0000, Ian Bell used
to say...

Kurt Hamster wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:55:20 +0000, Ian Molton used
to say...

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:31:17 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote:

I'm not dumb enough to spend fortunes (and lots of man hours)
attempting to find out which are bad recordings and which aren't.

Its not hard. if it sounds crap, its bad. since upgrading to my DAC and
replacing my old amp, I can *clearly* hear defects in recordings that
were bad before.

Well there ya go, concentrating on the recording rather than the music
:(


Don't suppose it occured to you that some of us actually know what a
genuine performance actually sounds like and a poor recording is as much a
distraction as a poor performance.

Exactly my point. So why have a system that highlights a bad recording
thereby distracting one from the performance?

It ain't rocket science.

Simple, because any system that masks recording faults will mask the
performance also. When I buy Cornflakes I expect Cornflakes not Sugar
Frosties.

Ian

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Kurt Hamster wrote:

snip


After 30 years of buying and listening to hifi I've discovered that
by-and-large all upgrading succeeds in doing is making one's wallet
lighter and generally becoming unhappier due to frustration of "knowing"
that that new amp that is 1500 quid dearer than the one you already have
would make _the_ difference and that you'll never have a satisfying
sound until you buy it.


This is a totaly different subject. I don't think anyone has said more
expensive = better. In fact as a rule more expensive = more strange
atrifacts to mask the music. Why spend a load of dosh to get some kit
which makes your crappy recording sound good? Easy, cheaper to get an
acurate system and replace your crap recordings. Obtaining an accurate
reproduction is not expensive these days - to use your own words, it ain't
rocket science.

Ian

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

Kurt Hamster wrote:

snip


After 30 years of buying and listening to hifi I've discovered that
by-and-large all upgrading succeeds in doing is making one's wallet
lighter and generally becoming unhappier due to frustration of "knowing"
that that new amp that is 1500 quid dearer than the one you already have
would make _the_ difference and that you'll never have a satisfying
sound until you buy it.


This is a totaly different subject. I don't think anyone has said more
expensive = better. In fact as a rule more expensive = more strange
atrifacts to mask the music. Why spend a load of dosh to get some kit
which makes your crappy recording sound good? Easy, cheaper to get an
acurate system and replace your crap recordings. Obtaining an accurate
reproduction is not expensive these days - to use your own words, it ain't
rocket science.

Ian

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:18:37 -0000
Jim H wrote:

I don't know how it's done, but most recent nvidia cards provide a lot
more than just gamma.
I've uploaded a (low quality) shot of the setup in windows. This
functionality is not currently exposed in the linux drivers.

Looks like a truecolour LUT setup utility. A similar utility was working on my Scanlight 256 10 years ago (handheld b/w scanner)


--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:18:37 -0000
Jim H wrote:

I don't know how it's done, but most recent nvidia cards provide a lot
more than just gamma.
I've uploaded a (low quality) shot of the setup in windows. This
functionality is not currently exposed in the linux drivers.

Looks like a truecolour LUT setup utility. A similar utility was working on my Scanlight 256 10 years ago (handheld b/w scanner)


--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:59:46 +0000 (UTC)
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

Cheapest tweak in the world is get out of the chair and move back a bit or
even out of the room if necessary. (Says that sitting in a bungalow....)

Hmmmm, I wonder if Kurt lives in a tower block............... :-)

One can only hope...

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

"What HiFi" - can it be trusted?
 

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:59:46 +0000 (UTC)
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

Cheapest tweak in the world is get out of the chair and move back a bit or
even out of the room if necessary. (Says that sitting in a bungalow....)

Hmmmm, I wonder if Kurt lives in a tower block............... :-)

One can only hope...

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.