60 years ago saw the introduction of the Western Electric 300A and 300B
direct-heated power triode, RCA 45, 50, and 2A3 directly-heated power triodes,
and RCA 27, 56, 76, 6P5, 6J5, and 6SN7 family of indirectly-heated triodes.
Sixty years later, these devices continue to be the lowest distortion
amplifying elements ever made. No pentode, bipolar transistor, JFET, or MOSFET
has ever approached the distortion performance of mid-Thirties triodes. In
addition to low distortion in the absolute sense, the distortion spectra of
triodes is favorable, with a rapid fall-off of the upper harmonics. (This is
not true for beam tetrodes, pentodes, or solid-state devices, which are
intrinsically less linear.)

If you ever want to put a solid-state designer on the spot, ask them which
transistors were designed for high-fidelity audio applications ... and are they
still on the market, ten or twenty years after they introduced? The sad fact is
that solid-state devices have linearity well down on the list of design
priorities, with feedback needed to clean up devices that were never primarily
intended for audio. The automotive equivalent would be cars modified to use
truck diesels ... OK for Soviet Russia maybe, but do you think you'd want to
buy something like that if you had a choice? Yet this is the state of affairs
in solid-state audio, with the electronic equivalent of an industrial diesel
pressed into service in so-called "high-end" electronics.

Lynn Olsen

Keep the faith - "If it ain't glowing, it ain't going"

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

In article , Andy Evans
wrote:
60 years ago saw the introduction of the Western Electric 300A and 300B
direct-heated power triode, RCA 45, 50, and 2A3 directly-heated power
triodes, and RCA 27, 56, 76, 6P5, 6J5, and 6SN7 family of
indirectly-heated triodes. Sixty years later, these devices continue to
be the lowest distortion amplifying elements ever made. No pentode,
bipolar transistor, JFET, or MOSFET has ever approached the distortion
performance of mid-Thirties triodes. In addition to low distortion in
the absolute sense, the distortion spectra of triodes is favorable, with
a rapid fall-off of the upper harmonics. (This is not true for beam
tetrodes, pentodes, or solid-state devices, which are intrinsically less
linear.)

Could you be more specific by what you mean above? Under what specific
conditions of use, signal powers, etc, are you making the above comments?

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Could you be more specific by what you mean above? Under what specific
conditions of use, signal powers, etc, are you making the above comments?

These are excerpts from Lynn Olsen's very interesting site, not my words. You
have to read the original in full, rather than making comments on excerpts,
however tempting that may be! http://www.aloha-audio.com/ - look at the
Libraries section. Cheers, Andy

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

"Andy Evans" wrote


snip rather nice valve troll


Keep the faith - "If it ain't glowing, it ain't going"


OK, having hooked ukra back up again (as I said I would) it's interesting
that all I'm seeing is valves and cable threads.

I blew the cable thread (seen it all before - way too many times now) and
read the valves thread with some interest as it has coincided exactly with
my current experimentation:

Yesterday evening, my 'audiophile salesman' chum Nigel was up to hear the
Technics SE-A2000 (that I've just bought from his shop) in my system. It's
an interesting bit of kit with (I'm told) a fairly unusual 'twin monaural'
construction using mosfets and bipolars in all the right places....??

I got it mainly for protracted 'background' use and because it became
available and because I've got a soft spot for the 'higher end' Technics
gear generally. (I also love the 'power meters' but for Gawd's sake don't
tell anyone..... :-)

I had it paired up with an EAR 834L (1 x ECC83 JJ Tesla and 2 x 5814a JAN
Philips) line stage and played Nigel a selection of 'his sort of thing'.
Apart from a little 'dryness' and possibly a hint of 'dull' (if you listen
closely for the first few minutes), I find this combo completely
inoffensive, once I've got used to it. It's certainly got clout - deep and
very tight bass which can create quite a bit of 'sternum pressure' and can
send little puffs of air past your ears, even from small speakers. (That
remark will either mean something or it won't....)

Anyhoo, all was perfectly fine and Nigey Wigey loved it.

Then the Devil in me kicked in and halfway through the evening I quickly
swapped to my WAD Kit88. With Chris Rea 'On The Beach' actually playing
(like already started) I swapped leads and switched it on and it creaked and
squeaked its way up from stone cold. (All other aspects of the kit were
unchanged.)

In less than a minute the Kit88 valve amp had blown the Technics (MY
Technics, no less) into the weeds!

It was all there - sweetness, soundstage, tone, warmth, 'naturalness',
'friendly' even!. All those little 'red rag' terms I know you all love so
much! ;-)

Ain't got the grip or slam of the Technics but beats it in every other
respect. (After an hour the Technics stood no chance whatsoever.) For the
remainder of the evening I asked Nigel from time to time 'which one?'
(bearing in mind he's *totally* Technics 'high end' himself) and each time
he just shot a finger toward Johnny WAD....

Believe it or believe it not, I don't give a ****. (Checkable by phone if
anyone *had * to hear it from the horses mouth, I suppose, Google up A N
Audio, St Neots - they've got a website - and ask for 'Nigey Wigey'! :-)

I've got no real axe to grind with valves - you either 'get it' or you
don't. They can be a right pain in the arse and they definitely ain't for
everyone! (It doesn't hurt to be a damn sight 'techier' than I'll ever be,
for a start!) I've also no axe to grind with 'specs' and 'metrology'
(essential for designers and builders) but, FFS, just once in a while put
the slide-rules down and have a good *listen* will ya?

There - my £0.02......

Now, anybody else get a freebie HFN this morning with MF's heejus new TT ad
included with it? Oops! Wrong group.......!

;-)

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:59:35 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Yesterday evening, my 'audiophile salesman' chum Nigel was up to hear the
Technics SE-A2000 (that I've just bought from his shop) in my system. It's
an interesting bit of kit with (I'm told) a fairly unusual 'twin monaural'
construction using mosfets and bipolars in all the right places....??

Twin monaural - Wossat? Sounds a bit like two shoes, matching left and
right, rather than a pair of shoes.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:59:35 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Yesterday evening, my 'audiophile salesman' chum Nigel was up to hear the
Technics SE-A2000 (that I've just bought from his shop) in my system.
It's
an interesting bit of kit with (I'm told) a fairly unusual 'twin
monaural'
construction using mosfets and bipolars in all the right places....??

Twin monaural - Wossat? Sounds a bit like two shoes, matching left and
right, rather than a pair of shoes.


Heh heh! Didn't see my own post - seems I'd managed to killfile myself! (Ya
gotta larf don't ya...? :-)


Right Don, you wear shoes on your ears do you? - That can't help much, can
it......? ;-)

'Twin Monaural' is 'Technicspeak' for 'dual mono'......

(Wot else?)

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
Twin monaural - Wossat? Sounds a bit like two shoes, matching left and
right, rather than a pair of shoes.

Posh name for separate power supplies for each channel. Or poor matching
of performance. ;-)

--
*I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In less than a minute the Kit88 valve amp had blown the Technics (MY Technics,
no less) into the weeds!

"If it ain't glowing, it ain't going."

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

In article , Keith G
wrote:
"Andy Evans" wrote



In less than a minute the Kit88 valve amp had blown the Technics (MY
Technics, no less) into the weeds!


I would be interested to know your reactions if you first fitted a pair of
resistors in series with the outputs of the Technics. Values of around 0.47
to 1 Ohms between each output and the speaker. This would roughly mimic the
relatively high output impedances typical of valve amps.

I'd be curious to know if, after listening, you felt this changed things in
a way that made you feel that the Technics now sounded more like the valve
amp.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:
"Andy Evans" wrote



In less than a minute the Kit88 valve amp had blown the Technics (MY
Technics, no less) into the weeds!


I would be interested to know your reactions if you first fitted a pair of
resistors in series with the outputs of the Technics. Values of around
0.47
to 1 Ohms between each output and the speaker. This would roughly mimic
the
relatively high output impedances typical of valve amps.

I'd be curious to know if, after listening, you felt this changed things
in
a way that made you feel that the Technics now sounded more like the valve
amp.


OK, I'll give this a go and get the same person to do the test. (My own take
is that, on the Technics, the sound lost 'air', 'sweetness' and kinda shrunk
back into the speakers, but I let my mate, Nigey Wigey, make all the
claims......)

Tell me if this will work: The amp has two sets of speaker outlets (A and B)
which I have used to check the 'biwiring' phenomenon (to absolutely 'zero'
effect, I would say, yet again). If I use two pairs of (identical) speaker
wires to the speakers and leave the connecting links on the speaker
terminals will I be able to select A and B in turn (ie to compare the 'with'
and 'without' resistors in series) or will the impedances be somehow 'messed
up'? (It would be a simple front-panel button pressing exercise if this is
permissible....)