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"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 16:43:16 +0000
Tim Hobbs wrote:


http://www.storagereview.com/article...DS722525VLSA80
_1.html

Oh dear god no. not IBM discs.

You had problems with them? It's been a while admittedly, but I
used to favour them a few years back, mostly for being quiet and
reliable.

Lets just say its no co-incidence that IBM sold out to hitachi
immediately after sellign some of the least reliable drives in modern
times...

I buy over 100 hard drives a year. For one reason or the other they are
fairly equally divided between WD, IBM/Hitachi, and Maxtor. IME they all
fail at similar rates, which is to say way too frequently.

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Speaking of which, 70 degrees for a CPU is hot.

Agreed, its too hot. I found that athlons and durons willrn at this
temperature, but their lifespans are greatly reduced (I have had 2 failures
inside 3 years).

In fact I've stopped using AMD processors - just find I can achieve cooler
temperatures & quieter operation with Intel Pentiums.
The AMDs do indeed run hot and are remarkably fragile. Foolishly forgot to
place a heatsink & fan on an AMD CPU once and it burnt up within 60 seconds
of power up! Also suffered another CPU failure in the same setup.
Touch-wood, never had a Pentium fail.

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"just me" wrote
In fact I've stopped using AMD processors - just find I can achieve cooler
temperatures & quieter operation with Intel Pentiums.
The AMDs do indeed run hot and are remarkably fragile. Foolishly forgot to
place a heatsink & fan on an AMD CPU once and it burnt up within 60
seconds
of power up! Also suffered another CPU failure in the same setup.
Touch-wood, never had a Pentium fail.

Many CPUs can shut-down if they reach critical temperature.

I unplugged a CPU fan for about 60s and it shut down the PC.
Very happy person as I'd only just bought the chip.

Athlon 1700xp (1.47GHz) runs at around 51'C
(24/7)

--
Charlie

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On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 01:53:12 -0000, just me wrote:

Not read any studies myself, but there is logic behind this. The
tolerance
of any electronic and mechanical device isn't infinite. Pushing that
tolerance envelope will eventually have an impact on performance. I for
one
would not wish to risk the data on a HD to find out what isn't tolerable
when simple common-sense techniques can prevent temperature extremes.
Speaking of which, 70 degrees for a CPU is hot. Are you using CPU
intensive
applications? Even gamers and silent PC modders worry about 70 degrees!
What
tool is giving that measurement? What CPU and what cooling are you using?

Zalman 'flower' cooler on slightly less than minimum setting. I know from
trying
with overclocking my mobo is very good at turning itself off when it gets
too hot.

This particular Athlon is a t'bread 2100, fastest of a run of particuarly
heat inefficient CPUS. IIRC They are specced to 90 or so.

I suppose 70 is the high end. I tend to have a lot of background crunching
going on
though. The cpu has been running pretty much non stop for over a year like
this and
I tend to upgrade quite a bit so I'm not too bothered if it lasts 3 years
instead of
10.

--
Jim H jh
@333
.org

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On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:29:33 -0000
"just me" wrote:


In fact I've stopped using AMD processors - just find I can achieve cooler
temperatures & quieter operation with Intel Pentiums.

My current one (dying, due to lightening damage) runs at a happy 42 degrees. I'll let you know how its replacement does in the same machine.

Never had a problem cooling amds and I dont expect my heatsink will just 'fall off' so I dont really buy into the alarmist thing on THG ;-)

Intels are slightly better engineered thermally, but I still go for 'bangs per buck'.

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

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On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:29:33 -0000, just me wrote:

Speaking of which, 70 degrees for a CPU is hot.

Agreed, its too hot. I found that athlons and durons willrn at this
temperature, but their lifespans are greatly reduced (I have had 2
failures
inside 3 years).

In fact I've stopped using AMD processors - just find I can achieve
cooler
temperatures & quieter operation with Intel Pentiums.
The AMDs do indeed run hot and are remarkably fragile. Foolishly forgot
to
place a heatsink & fan on an AMD CPU once and it burnt up within 60
seconds
of power up! Also suffered another CPU failure in the same setup.
Touch-wood, never had a Pentium fail.

Pentiums are very good at working in less than optimal thermal conditions
because they underclock themsleves if they get too hot. Great feature for
stability, problem is that there's no easy way to know if the cpu's working
at full speed.

I've seen a recent p4 have the heatsink pulled off in the middle of a game
of
quake, the games slowed to a crawl but the system never crashed! a few
seconds
later when it was put back on everything was fine.

--
Jim H jh
@333
.org

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On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:32:08 -0000, Jim H
wrote:

Pentiums are very good at working in less than optimal thermal conditions
because they underclock themsleves if they get too hot. Great feature for
stability, problem is that there's no easy way to know if the cpu's working
at full speed.

I've seen a recent p4 have the heatsink pulled off in the middle of a game
of
quake, the games slowed to a crawl but the system never crashed! a few
seconds
later when it was put back on everything was fine.


Yeah. Reputedly, an Athlon would melt :-)

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"Jim H" wrote


The 160gig Samsung spinpoints are very fast and quiet.



And well priced at one of my 'usual' online stores - (Komplett, I think)

I got one a few weeks ago, and am pretty happy with it - as quiet as my
old
Seagate Baracuda IV (considered the quietest drive around)

The drive runs slightly hot, but still way under the specified max of 55
degrees. If you need a few a slow, quiet fan over them might be a good
idea.


Yes, I'm thinking just to grab a smaller disk for the moment to fill an
empty bay and fancy one of these Samsungs myself. From what has been said
here, it looks like an array of multiple drives needs some careful thought
from the heat build-up POV. (No rush on that yet...)



Incidently, are we looking at uncompressed digital video to fill a
terabyte?

No - DVD movies.....

About 200 of them then!



Well, just over half that atm.... ;-)

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Bitstring , from the
wonderful person Laurence Payne
said
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:32:08 -0000, Jim H
wrote:

Pentiums are very good at working in less than optimal thermal conditions
because they underclock themsleves if they get too hot. Great feature for
stability, problem is that there's no easy way to know if the cpu's working
at full speed.

I've seen a recent p4 have the heatsink pulled off in the middle of a game
of
quake, the games slowed to a crawl but the system never crashed! a few
seconds
later when it was put back on everything was fine.


Yeah. Reputedly, an Athlon would melt :-)

A 'mark 1' Athlon in an old motherboard might. Anything produced in the
last 2 years, in a decent motherboard, would do pretty much what the P4
does - slow down, and if that doesn't help enough (which it probably
won't with no HS at all) then switch off.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

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On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:34:35 +0000, GSV Three Minds in a Can
wrote:

A 'mark 1' Athlon in an old motherboard might. Anything produced in the
last 2 years, in a decent motherboard, would do pretty much what the P4
does - slow down, and if that doesn't help enough (which it probably
won't with no HS at all) then switch off.

That's interesting. In another forum, a P4 laptop is being
criticised for thermal throttling cutting in, sabotaging multitrack
audio recording and playback. Allegedly. An Athlon, apparently
would never do that! (I guess he'd rather it carried on, despite
inadequate cooling in the confines of a laptop, until it melted;
triumphantly playing his music the while :-)

Current Athlons run rather cooler than the early ones, and have
thermal protection then? I suppose it would be odd if they didn't
:-)