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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 01:47:42 +0000
Laurence Payne wrote:


Current Athlons run rather cooler than the early ones, and have
thermal protection then?

More to the point, two things changed

1) the thermal diode on the chips is actually fast enough to save them
now
2) Motherboards actually support throttling based on the temperature

(Unlike the pentium, the athlon needs the motherboard to do the actual
throttling for it, although I have no idea if this is done in software
or by the hardware directly).

My Shuttle XPC has an LED on the board that comes on if it shut down
from overheating. (its never been tested by me though)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 02:09:34 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:

1) the thermal diode on the chips is actually fast enough to save them
now
2) Motherboards actually support throttling based on the temperature

(Unlike the pentium, the athlon needs the motherboard to do the actual
throttling for it, although I have no idea if this is done in software
or by the hardware directly).

Interesting.

There's Thermal Throttling settings in BIOS on my P4 system.

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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 02:20:27 +0000
Laurence Payne wrote:

(Unlike the pentium, the athlon needs the motherboard to do the
actual throttling for it, although I have no idea if this is done in
software or by the hardware directly).

Interesting.

There's Thermal Throttling settings in BIOS on my P4 system.

Yeah but AIUI the P4 does the actual throttling itself, wheras the
athlon implementation is partially in software.

I could be wrong though - I havent gone out of my way to verify my
sources here ;-)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

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"Laurence Payne" wrote in
message
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:32:08 -0000, Jim H
wrote:

Pentiums are very good at working in less than optimal thermal
conditions because they underclock themselves if they get too hot.
Great feature for stability, problem is that there's no easy way to
know if the cpu's working at full speed.

I've seen a recent p4 have the heatsink pulled off in the middle of a
game of
quake, the games slowed to a crawl but the system never crashed! a
few seconds
later when it was put back on everything was fine.

Yeah. Reputedly, an Athlon would melt :-)

Not "reputedly", but "for sure".

Typically, if you try to run any Athlon or Duron chip without a heatsink, or
with the heatsink a little cocked, or with too thick of a layer of thermal
compound, or thermal compound with particles in it that prevents complete
intimate contact between the heatsink and the chip, the chip is history in
about a minute.

I regret to say that in the process of assembling 100's of CPUs onto
motherboards, I've made a mistake or two...

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"Keith G" wrote in message


Yes, I'm thinking just to grab a smaller disk for the moment to fill
an empty bay and fancy one of these Samsungs myself. From what has
been said here, it looks like an array of multiple drives needs some
careful thought from the heat build-up POV. (No rush on that yet...)

I've built machines with up to 8 hard drives in them, and the machines have
lived long and happy lives. Yes, I paid lots of attention to air flow around
the drives.

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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 05:39:34 -0500
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

Typically, if you try to run any Athlon or Duron chip without a heatsink, or
with the heatsink a little cocked, or with too thick of a layer of thermal
compound, or thermal compound with particles in it that prevents complete
intimate contact between the heatsink and the chip, the chip is history in
about a minute.

Not on any recent board...

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

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Hi,

In message , Arny Krueger
writes
"Laurence Payne" wrote in
message
Yeah. Reputedly, an Athlon would melt :-)

Not "reputedly", but "for sure".

Indeed. tomshardware.com (not a site I pay much attention to usually, as
I think they do way too much grandstanding) made some videos of Athlon
processors self-destructing due to lack of proper cooling. The evidence
is at:

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/2001...tvideo-05.html.

You can almost smell the smoke :-)

Things have probably changed since this happened - I would guess that
AMD and the motherboard manufacturers are now doing more to properly
implement thermal controls.
--
Regards,
Glenn Booth

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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


Yes, I'm thinking just to grab a smaller disk for the moment to fill
an empty bay and fancy one of these Samsungs myself. From what has
been said here, it looks like an array of multiple drives needs some
careful thought from the heat build-up POV. (No rush on that yet...)

I've built machines with up to 8 hard drives in them, and the machines
have
lived long and happy lives. Yes, I paid lots of attention to air flow
around
the drives.



Noise? Acceptable in an audio or HT environment?

I have to say the imminence of 8.5 Gb dual-layer blank media and burners (+
in March, - later this year) has got me thinking that it might pay to hold
off for the moment. The growth rate of my 'stored material' (600 Gig since
Christmas and rising) on 4.7 Gig disks will make a nonsense of a single Tb
array soon enough, double the present disk size and that's gonna happen in
half the time......

Perhaps my current 'mass data storage' arrangement:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...ow/storage.jpg

is not entirely without benefit for the time being. At the cost of somewhat
slow 'data retrieval' and 'sorting' I get:

immunity from data loss due to equipment failure
silent operation
no heat build up
transportability
full compatability with existing playback devices
infinite, cheap expansion possibilities with the added bonus of new
shoes......

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On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 12:22:41 +0000
Glenn Booth wrote:


Things have probably changed since this happened - I would guess that
AMD and the motherboard manufacturers are now doing more to properly
implement thermal controls.

As you say, THG grandstands. the 'problem' on AMD chips was *already* solved at that time and they used older hardware to 'make their point'.

It wasnt a design error anyway - AMD simply decided to design a chip that *required* a heatsink.

I doubt people here would dream of running a 250W amp without its heatsink...

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

Best Hard Disk Deals
 

"Keith G" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message


Yes, I'm thinking just to grab a smaller disk for the moment to fill
an empty bay and fancy one of these Samsungs myself. From what has
been said here, it looks like an array of multiple drives needs some
careful thought from the heat build-up POV. (No rush on that yet...)

I've built machines with up to 8 hard drives in them, and the
machines have lived long and happy lives. Yes, I paid lots of
attention to air flow around the drives.

Noise?

CPU and power supply cooling are IME larger issues.

Acceptable in an audio or HT environment?

If push comes to shove, just put the PC in another room.

I have to say the imminence of 8.5 Gb dual-layer blank media and
burners (+ in March, - later this year) has got me thinking that it
might pay to hold off for the moment. The growth rate of my 'stored
material' (600 Gig since Christmas and rising) on 4.7 Gig disks will
make a nonsense of a single Tb array soon enough, double the present
disk size and that's gonna happen in half the time...

4.7 GB media gets it for me, and I normally work in 24 bit wave files...

Perhaps my current 'mass data storage' arrangement:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...ow/storage.jpg

"page not found"


is not entirely without benefit for the time being. At the cost of
somewhat slow 'data retrieval' and 'sorting' I get:

immunity from data loss due to equipment failure
silent operation
no heat build up
transportability
full compatibility with existing playback devices
infinite, cheap expansion possibilities with the added bonus of new
shoes......