Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...

and the bass on your Apogees is good enough to warrant not having a
subwoofer?



I may be wrong, but I don't think it's that simple - I'm awaiting
delivery of a cheap sub (from the same outfit as the ch*nky amp :-) as I
type. My speakers go very low but I'm not happy that the amp is
delivering the '.1' stuff to them, especially as we don't use a centre
speaker. I want a sub just to pull these frequencies off (ie tell the amp
there *is* a sub) - now, is anybody going to tell me I've got that all
screwed up??



I have a cheap 10 inch sub from a local electronics chain (UK equivalent
would be Maplins?) after reading good things about it from the Oz hi-fi
newsgroup. At £40, I couldn't go wrong! How's that for cheap?


That's nice!

The one I've got coming is £60 + £12 P&P - I'll be comparing it with a £300
Mission sub I had here a week or so ago...



And that sub is the only Chinese designed component of my otherwise
Anglo-Japanese stereo system ...


OK, I've only got stuff from:

UK
China
France
Germany
Russia
Denmark
Austria
Japan
America
Canada
Norway (?)
Yugoslavia
Czechoslovakia


and probably elsewhere, if I could think of it.......!!

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Kurt Hamster wrote:

If you are making the amps then yes it would be a good thing, but if it
is for the purposes of buying one then why should the listener's bias'
be ignored?

Having been the unwitting victim of my own bias once or twice, I can
answer that - it MUST be ignored.

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

"Mike Gilmour" wrote



Just like they used to make 'em here in the days of hand assembly. Buy
all you can from China because at this quality it'll go the way of Japan
and Korea i.e. not long prices rise,


*exactly* :-)



maybe then workers afforded a better standard of living.



I'm not sure that China (generally speaking) does have a low standard of
living - they are a BRIC member, after all. It's not the same as ours,
but one which I might swap for in some/many respects!!

(Do they have pie and mash restaurants in China? ;-)

I won't be surprised if they do, or will have soon! Only takes someone to
acquire a taste for it overseas and decide to start a chain of pie shops
back in China ...

(and it won't be hard to make the pie pastry ... have you seen how much
work goes into the Chinese egg tart pastry?)

Btw, over here in Oz, there is a rugby league team that is sponsored by a
pie company and they have pictures of the players tucking into the pies at
the
shop ... is it any wonder the team finished with the wooden spoon for the
last two seasons?

:)


Just been looking at my Sansui Model 2000 (earlyish Japanese days) and
it came with a full workshop manual packed with schematics, component id
photographs and a complete parts list down to the last nut & washer & a
comprehensive user manual.
.....sing along 'Those were the days my friend'



Certainly/absolutely, but it won't be long before some **** comes rushing
up to tell it's not *hi*fi or summat!!

;-)



Ah, but isn't the Sansui a SS amp? Probably has decent measurements as
well ...

;)

Specs as quoted:

Fr 15~40,000 Hz +/- 1.5 dB
Music Power (IHF) 100W +/-1dB (4Ohm), 85W +/- 1dB (8 ohm)
Harmonic Distortion less than 0.8% (at rated output)
Damping Factor More than 24 (8 ohm)
Power Bandwidth (IHF) 20~40,000Hz (8 ohm)

Transistors :-)
1 of SE5050 2 of SE3001 6 of 2SC-645 2 of 2SC-828 2 of 2SA-101 2 of
2SA102 8 of 2SC-536 5 of 2SC458 2 of 2SC-650 2 of 2SC-281 2 of 2SC-693
2 of 2SC-649 2 of 2SC-826 2 of 2SC-708 2 of 2SC-537 4 of 2SC-493 1 of
2SB-54 2 of 2SB-324

and like Johnny Walker ..still going strong.

Mike

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

"Mike Gilmour" wrote



Just like they used to make 'em here in the days of hand assembly. Buy
all you can from China because at this quality it'll go the way of Japan
and Korea i.e. not long prices rise,


*exactly* :-)



maybe then workers afforded a better standard of living.



I'm not sure that China (generally speaking) does have a low standard of
living - they are a BRIC member, after all. It's not the same as ours,
but one which I might swap for in some/many respects!!

(Do they have pie and mash restaurants in China? ;-)

I won't be surprised if they do, or will have soon! Only takes someone to
acquire a taste for it overseas and decide to start a chain of pie shops
back in China ...


Hmmm, could be talking 'business opportunity' here! :-)

Although I'm not sure just how well 'Pukka Pies' would go down (or even
stay down) in China.....??? :-)



(and it won't be hard to make the pie pastry ... have you seen how much
work goes into the Chinese egg tart pastry?)

Btw, over here in Oz, there is a rugby league team that is sponsored by a
pie company and they have pictures of the players tucking into the pies
at the
shop ... is it any wonder the team finished with the wooden spoon for the
last two seasons?

:)


Just been looking at my Sansui Model 2000 (earlyish Japanese days) and
it came with a full workshop manual packed with schematics, component
id photographs and a complete parts list down to the last nut & washer
& a comprehensive user manual.
.....sing along 'Those were the days my friend'



Certainly/absolutely, but it won't be long before some **** comes
rushing up to tell it's not *hi*fi or summat!!

;-)



Ah, but isn't the Sansui a SS amp? Probably has decent measurements as
well ...


What, about 440mm wide...?? :-)


Metric what's Metric? it's 16-1/8" wide :-) Specs already posted (Horn
rimmed with nonreflective glass...)

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

"Mike Gilmour" wrote



Just like they used to make 'em here in the days of hand assembly. Buy
all you can from China because at this quality it'll go the way of
Japan and Korea i.e. not long prices rise,


*exactly* :-)



maybe then workers afforded a better standard of living.



I'm not sure that China (generally speaking) does have a low standard
of living - they are a BRIC member, after all. It's not the same as
ours, but one which I might swap for in some/many respects!!

(Do they have pie and mash restaurants in China? ;-)

I won't be surprised if they do, or will have soon! Only takes someone
to acquire a taste for it overseas and decide to start a chain of pie
shops back in China ...


Hmmm, could be talking 'business opportunity' here! :-)

Although I'm not sure just how well 'Pukka Pies' would go down (or even
stay down) in China.....??? :-)



(and it won't be hard to make the pie pastry ... have you seen how much
work goes into the Chinese egg tart pastry?)

Btw, over here in Oz, there is a rugby league team that is sponsored by
a pie company and they have pictures of the players tucking into the
pies at the
shop ... is it any wonder the team finished with the wooden spoon for
the last two seasons?

:)


Just been looking at my Sansui Model 2000 (earlyish Japanese days) and
it came with a full workshop manual packed with schematics, component
id photographs and a complete parts list down to the last nut & washer
& a comprehensive user manual.
.....sing along 'Those were the days my friend'



Certainly/absolutely, but it won't be long before some **** comes
rushing up to tell it's not *hi*fi or summat!!

;-)



Ah, but isn't the Sansui a SS amp? Probably has decent measurements as
well ...


What, about 440mm wide...?? :-)


Metric what's Metric? it's 16-1/8" wide :-) Specs already posted (Horn
rimmed with nonreflective glass...)


Doctor rushes in to screaming patient scenario - 'No, no nurse - FFS, I said
remove the patient's *spectacles*....!!' :-)

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

"Mike Gilmour" wrote



Just like they used to make 'em here in the days of hand assembly. Buy
all you can from China because at this quality it'll go the way of
Japan and Korea i.e. not long prices rise,


*exactly* :-)



maybe then workers afforded a better standard of living.



I'm not sure that China (generally speaking) does have a low standard
of living - they are a BRIC member, after all. It's not the same as
ours, but one which I might swap for in some/many respects!!

(Do they have pie and mash restaurants in China? ;-)

I won't be surprised if they do, or will have soon! Only takes someone
to acquire a taste for it overseas and decide to start a chain of pie
shops back in China ...


Hmmm, could be talking 'business opportunity' here! :-)

Although I'm not sure just how well 'Pukka Pies' would go down (or even
stay down) in China.....??? :-)



(and it won't be hard to make the pie pastry ... have you seen how much
work goes into the Chinese egg tart pastry?)

Btw, over here in Oz, there is a rugby league team that is sponsored by
a pie company and they have pictures of the players tucking into the
pies at the
shop ... is it any wonder the team finished with the wooden spoon for
the last two seasons?

:)


Just been looking at my Sansui Model 2000 (earlyish Japanese days)
and it came with a full workshop manual packed with schematics,
component id photographs and a complete parts list down to the last
nut & washer & a comprehensive user manual.
.....sing along 'Those were the days my friend'



Certainly/absolutely, but it won't be long before some **** comes
rushing up to tell it's not *hi*fi or summat!!

;-)



Ah, but isn't the Sansui a SS amp? Probably has decent measurements as
well ...


What, about 440mm wide...?? :-)


Metric what's Metric? it's 16-1/8" wide :-) Specs already posted
(Horn rimmed with nonreflective glass...)


Doctor rushes in to screaming patient scenario - 'No, no nurse - FFS, I
said remove the patient's *spectacles*....!!' :-)







:-)

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

Kurt Hamster wrote:

Having been the unwitting victim of my own bias once or twice, I can
answer that - it MUST be ignored.


For you it should, but why should that be the case for anyone else?

Are you suggesting that the bulk of psychological research into this is
wrong? or just that you happen to differ from the *entire* human race?

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:02:56 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:26:57 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote

snip

I remain surprised by just how good a well-mixed Dolby 2.0 track can
be, at generating ambience well outside the speaker plane.

What, like a valve amp....??

Yup - but with SS you can turn the effect *off* when not watching a
movie!

Wot, like go back to planar sound only? Why *on earth* would anybody want to
do that?

It's too much of a pest to change speakers! However, the plain fact is
that I *do* use a different speaker system for movies - and probably
always will. IME music and movies require different priorities, and
until a speaker comes along which does *everything* well............

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:08:06 +1000, Tat Chan
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:03:44 +1000, Tat Chan
wrote:


and the bass on your Apogees is good enough to warrant not having a
subwoofer?


The main panel resonance is at 30Hz, and they're flat to 25Hz,

well, that is lower than my 10 inch sub goes!

The radiating area of my bass panels is the equivalent of eight 12"
drivers, so you don't need a lot of throw!

so I
don't feel the need for a sub. Organ music rattles the windows, and
you feel the 'heartbeat' in DSOM thumping your chest....

I have neighbours to think of here!

:(

Triple glazing and 13" thick walls are helpful in this regard.

However, once I get the monster sub built, I'll certainly be seeing if
it can do anything for the main system, rather than just underpinning
movies.

You probably know this better than me, but a "monster sub" in the TV/lounge room
normally doesn't go well with the female half ...

Ah, but what's in the room is just a 12" hole in the ceiling.......

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Good amps all sound the same do they?
 

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:08:16 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:12:58 +1000, Tat Chan
wrote:


Stewart Pinkerton wrote:


On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:13:44 +1000, Tat Chan
wrote:



Stewart Pinkerton wrote:



This old warhorse gets dragged out regularly. I use insensitive 3-ohm
speakers, and while my Audiolab (and several other amps) sounds just
like the Krell, it gets *very* hot after half an hour or so at high
SPLs. Hence, the Krell is there because it drives the speakers with
ease, not because it sounds different.


so did you get the Krell or the Apogees first?
And what speakers were you using before the Apogees?


I got them at the same time, and Maggie 1Cs, which my older Audiolab
8000P drove quite happily.

Ah, so the Apogees were a significant improvement over the Maggies then?


Yes, a massive improvement, although to be fair, they were also *much*
more expensive. A better competitor would have been the Maggie IIIC,
with the classic ribbon tweeter. Comparing those two, I thought the
Apogee was sweeter and more coherent through the wide midband (where
most of the music lies), and had noticeably deeper bass. The high
treble of the Maggie however, remains as good as it gets.


and the bass on your Apogees is good enough to warrant not having a
subwoofer?


I may be wrong, but I don't think it's that simple - I'm awaiting delivery
of a cheap sub (from the same outfit as the ch*nky amp :-) as I type. My
speakers go very low but I'm not happy that the amp is delivering the '.1'
stuff to them, especially as we don't use a centre speaker. I want a sub
just to pull these frequencies off (ie tell the amp there *is* a sub) - now,
is anybody going to tell me I've got that all screwed up??

If you set the processor to 'no sub', the .1 LFE signal should be fed
to the 'large' speakers. It doesn't matter if you're using a phantom
centre.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering