"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:02:29 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:04:00 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton used
to say...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:03:43 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:41:57 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton used
to say...

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:02:20 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
news:9l1ln057hjegvdfdjbkqdi9ao96bsuf3oe@4ax. com...
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:18:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Evans wrote:
Being a professional musician and having a good 'ear' for sound
are not
- by a long chalk - interdependent

Extraordinary statement. So would you say that being an engineer
and
being able to understand circuits "are not - by a long chalk -
interdependent" as well?

Plenty of excellent recording engineers have little understanding of
circuits at the component level. It just isn't necessary.

Ahem - that may perhaps not be a good application of the term
'engineer' - somewhat akin to 'road sanitation engineer'........

An maintenance engineer is a different matter.

Design engineers rarely have any involvement in the operation of
audio
equipment on a pro basis.

Very true - but they often have excellent hi-fi systems!

WTF do *you* know about it???

That would be because I'm a design engineer,

Was one, Pinky. Past tense. You are now an IT clone.

Once an engineer, always an engineer. And the world is controlled by
digital stuff nowadays, didn't you know?

Yes, but you were an analogue engineer weren't you, so even less
relevance.

Precision analogue specialist in the '70s, mixed signal engineer in
the '80s, as the front end signal conditioners acquired more digital
content. The kit I was designing (mainly automated test equipment) was
always computer-controlled, although the computers became massively
more powerful in the '80s. Progress, y'know.....

I don't call myself either a sailor or a paramedic just because I used
to be one. Perhaps you should realise the past is past.

OTOH, I'm still doing engineering work, and I'm on an engineering
salary grade.

Out of interest what exactly is your official job title?

Document developer and project manager, Group Technology, grade
Infrastructure C. Unluckily, I only get one salary for the two hats!


Another handy little example of this lying ****'s bull**** - he *snips* dose
he? - Count the indents, gotta be up to 9 by the time I send this off.

(I guess those that don't *want* to see it *won't* see it...???)

Ya gotta larf.....

:-)

"Kurt Hamster" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:39:10 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton used
to say...

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:02:29 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:04:00 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton used
to say...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:03:43 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:41:57 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton used
to say...

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:02:20 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
news:9l1ln057hjegvdfdjbkqdi9ao96bsuf3oe@4ax .com...

That would be because I'm a design engineer,

Was one, Pinky. Past tense. You are now an IT clone.

Once an engineer, always an engineer. And the world is controlled by
digital stuff nowadays, didn't you know?

Yes, but you were an analogue engineer weren't you, so even less
relevance.

Precision analogue specialist in the '70s, mixed signal engineer in
the '80s, as the front end signal conditioners acquired more digital
content. The kit I was designing (mainly automated test equipment) was
always computer-controlled, although the computers became massively
more powerful in the '80s. Progress, y'know.....

Wasn't it you who once said that you got out *because* it went digital?
So back to my comment... relevance?

I don't call myself either a sailor or a paramedic just because I used
to be one. Perhaps you should realise the past is past.

OTOH, I'm still doing engineering work, and I'm on an engineering
salary grade.

Where does "document developer" (aka letter writer?) and "project
manager" mention or even allude to engineering then?

As a hobbyist and computer fan since circa 79 could someone like me (who
is not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination) do your job? In
case you wondered from a practical standpoint I'm pretty much au fait
with most practical things related to computers including setting up
medium size networks, building PCs and generally a dab hand at figuring
out what I don't already know?

Which bits do you reckon I couldn't do?

Out of interest what exactly is your official job title?

Document developer and project manager, Group Technology, grade
Infrastructure C. Unluckily, I only get one salary for the two hats!

Nope, thought so. No engineering mentioned there.



As someone who has been involved with 'Civil' Engineering in the past I can
tell you (from memory) the 'Angle Of Repose' for topsoil and spoil is 55
degrees (from the horizontal, of course), I have *no idea* what it is for
bull****.....

On 22 Oct 2004 18:57:50 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

You said there was an alternative to feedback for making valves linear
- not global feedback.

I think from previous posts it's clear I meant that there are alternatives to
global NFB in making an amp sound good. I've said this all along.

No, it's clear that you are backpedalling faster than Eddie Mercks!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:36:40 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:02:20 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
news:9l1ln057hjegvdfdjbkqdi9ao96bsuf3oe@4ax .com...

That would be because I'm a design engineer,

Was one, Pinky. Past tense. You are now an IT clone.

Once an engineer, always an engineer. And the world is controlled by
digital stuff nowadays, didn't you know?

Yes, but you were an analogue engineer weren't you, so even less
relevance.

Precision analogue specialist in the '70s, mixed signal engineer in
the '80s, as the front end signal conditioners acquired more digital
content. The kit I was designing (mainly automated test equipment) was
always computer-controlled, although the computers became massively
more powerful in the '80s. Progress, y'know.....

Wasn't it you who once said that you got out *because* it went digital?

No. Still making up stories to suit your prejudices?

So back to my comment... relevance?

To what?

I don't call myself either a sailor or a paramedic just because I used
to be one. Perhaps you should realise the past is past.

OTOH, I'm still doing engineering work, and I'm on an engineering
salary grade.

Where does "document developer" (aka letter writer?) and "project
manager" mention or even allude to engineering then?

If you need to ask.....................

I have nothing to do with 'letter writing', this is crafting a data
file into many thousands of documents in the mail, with maxiumum
efficiency, using the best available technology. Project management is
a different skill, but if you don't know the engineering involved,
you'll never hit the live date!

As a hobbyist and computer fan since circa 79 could someone like me (who
is not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination) do your job?

Possibly - it's not rocket science!

In
case you wondered from a practical standpoint I'm pretty much au fait
with most practical things related to computers including setting up
medium size networks, building PCs and generally a dab hand at figuring
out what I don't already know?

Which bits do you reckon I couldn't do?

Likely none, if you're basically practical, intelligent and computer
literate. As I said before, this is a wind down to retirement for me!
:-)

Out of interest what exactly is your official job title?

Document developer and project manager, Group Technology, grade
Infrastructure C. Unluckily, I only get one salary for the two hats!

Nope, thought so. No engineering mentioned there.

Such a shame that you are unable to decipher anything not containing a
particular word..................................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:15:38 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

As someone who has been involved with 'Civil' Engineering in the past I can
tell you (from memory) the 'Angle Of Repose' for topsoil and spoil is 55
degrees (from the horizontal, of course), I have *no idea* what it is for
bull****.....

Funny, I thought you would have intimate knowledge of that figure.....

BTW, shouldn't that depend on soil composition and water content?
Also, why is that 'civil' engineers never are? Hairy-arsed brickies by
nature, all the ones I've ever met! Universally known in colleges as
'thick civs'..........................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

Nope, thought so. No engineering mentioned there.


Such a shame that you are unable to decipher anything not containing a
particular word..................................

Its his AS, Stewart - makes him a bit 'over literal'...

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:15:38 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

As someone who has been involved with 'Civil' Engineering in the past I
can
tell you (from memory) the 'Angle Of Repose' for topsoil and spoil is 55
degrees (from the horizontal, of course), I have *no idea* what it is for
bull****.....

Funny, I thought you would have intimate knowledge of that figure.....

BTW, shouldn't that depend on soil composition and water content?


You would think so, but it's just one figure I remember from some Soil
Mechanics tables - you know, those that Victorians compiled from scratch and
'engineers' have been using ever since....

Try he

http://fbe.uwe.ac.uk/public/geocal/S...on/default.htm

....but I couldn't find it....


Also, why is that 'civil' engineers never are? Hairy-arsed brickies by
nature, all the ones I've ever met! Universally known in colleges as
'thick civs'..........................


I think you're confusing CEs with 'navvies'....

OK Pinky, nice to end on a mellow note - I've got to let you go now, it's
taking too much of my 'keyboard time' responding to your posts and I'm
getting arsed off with being the only one here the 'nice people' can see
when we have a bit of argy bargy. (Apparently....???)

My 'career' in audio is about as long as I've been posting here - I
subscribed here to learn and have got bogged down in time-wasting slanging
matches. I need to get back to the good stuff and there's some interesting
posts from Iain Churches and Andy Evans I should have been reading today.

No hard feelings - if there's any itches you need to scratch, contact me by
email, otherwise I'm sure I'll spot anything of 'real interest' looking over
people's shoulders....

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:15:38 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


As someone who has been involved with 'Civil' Engineering in the past I can
tell you (from memory) the 'Angle Of Repose' for topsoil and spoil is 55
degrees (from the horizontal, of course), I have *no idea* what it is for
bull****.....


Funny, I thought you would have intimate knowledge of that figure.....

BTW, shouldn't that depend on soil composition and water content?
Also, why is that 'civil' engineers never are? Hairy-arsed brickies by
nature, all the ones I've ever met! Universally known in colleges as
'thick civs'..........................


And the people who did well in their A Levels went on to do EE instead
of CE ...

on a more serious note though (feel free to correct me), civil engineers
usually have better career/managerial prospects than EE people. EE
people then to be fairly specialised in an acutal technical field, and I
have found that civ engs tend to do more paper pushing, project
management, etc than any actual technical work. And they also work on
larger projects with more money involved (compared to
electronics/computer projects), which is why they are more likely to get
promoted to middle management than EE people.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:01:50 +1000, Tat Chan
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:15:38 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


As someone who has been involved with 'Civil' Engineering in the past I can
tell you (from memory) the 'Angle Of Repose' for topsoil and spoil is 55
degrees (from the horizontal, of course), I have *no idea* what it is for
bull****.....


Funny, I thought you would have intimate knowledge of that figure.....

BTW, shouldn't that depend on soil composition and water content?
Also, why is that 'civil' engineers never are? Hairy-arsed brickies by
nature, all the ones I've ever met! Universally known in colleges as
'thick civs'..........................


And the people who did well in their A Levels went on to do EE instead
of CE ...

on a more serious note though (feel free to correct me), civil engineers
usually have better career/managerial prospects than EE people. EE
people then to be fairly specialised in an acutal technical field, and I
have found that civ engs tend to do more paper pushing, project
management, etc than any actual technical work. And they also work on
larger projects with more money involved (compared to
electronics/computer projects), which is why they are more likely to get
promoted to middle management than EE people.

Sadly true. One of the things that really ****ed me off in my later
years in electronics, was that you train for five-ten years to become
a (hopefully) top-class engineer, then to get any more money, you have
to get promoted into management, for which you have no inclination,
quite possibly no talent, and certainly no training.................

It was nice to get back into 'hands-on' consultancy, but then you
discover that 'consultancy' is really about sales, for which you
have........... :-(

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Hello, Jim, very interesting - yes, this is the stuff.

A) with different THD spectra for a sinewave we may mean the distortion has
different audible effects )snip)

B) perceived or assumed difference in sound may not be due solely
or primarily to behaviours shown by
a different in the spectra.(snip)

Statement (A) seems to me reasonable as a generalised comment. However (B)
tries to work the argument in the reverse direction

Yes - this seems very reasonable.

1) The distortion measurements do not tell us anything about how the
distortion pattern might vary with the input
sinewave power or frequency. (snip)

Would you be happy introducing the idea of probability here, or induction
rather than deduction? Though not a mathematical proof, a 'risk assessment' may
say that 'it would be more likely that the distortion pattern would
substantially follow that indicated in other conditions'?

2) Real musical waveforms tend not to be pure sinewaves. ~we can't really work
out if the results of distorting more musical signals would be as he assumes.

Idem

3) The actual waveforms may have significantly different features. and
their properties may vary in complex or semi-random ways. e.g. the
violin waveform (snip)

This, on the other hand, seems to show that you would be uncomfortable with
estimating on the basis of probability

4) He does not give any real reasons for accepting that 'MC distortions' are
different to 'MM distortions' (snip)

This may be a different issue, as in your b) clause above.

(2) and (3) mean that the effects of distorting a real musical waveform may
not be as he assumes

does this rule out estimations of probability?

his claims may be a part of the situation, but perhaps may not be the most
significant part.

If his claim about harmonic spectra are 'reasonable per se', could it be said
that while his efforts at proof are not conclusive, neither is there a 'counter
argument' (harmonic spectra have no effect on sound) that is any further on the
road towards proof?

Nor does he provide much evidence to establish that you or I would agree with
his comments on the 'sound' of all the items.

I think you'd say 'if this is taking us into subjective listening tests, don't
go there'?

There may well be later articles that deal with this in a more careful manner,
though.

I'm not sure how much of an academic theorist he is - he certainly designs
circuits. I don't know whether his circuits follow his theory or vica versa
(not that this is a very useful distinction, maybe) Andy



--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html




=== Andy Evans ===
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