On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:22:09 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:

Direct Cut = Sun Dive. It's not
difficult.................... :-)

I now have a voice to put to your words - thanks!

Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they want me to explain why
vinyl is obsolete........................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

In article , John Phillips
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf wrote:
We do seem to have been through a period where 'authentic' was
regarded as being somehow important in itself. However although I'm
not really a fan of early music I find it more bearable than a lot of
the 20th century "first and last performance in our time" atonal,
serial, etc, stuff that the BBC used to keep on filling up time with!
:-)

I guess you didn't tune in for Radio 3's "John Cage Uncaged" weekend
earlier this year?

You would guess correctly. :-)

I would have been happier to leave the radio off, and listen to my own
breathing, etc. That way I could make the performance suit with no added
background from the radio. :-)

Actually it was Cage's teacher - Henry Cowell - who impressed me more
through a performance of his 1928 piano concerto during the weekend. Its
tone clusters were played by Philip Mead wearing protective mittens. I
hope the piano didn't suffer too much.

About the closest my taste gets to such things is a liking for the Organ
music of Messian or Alain...

In spite of my own tastes, I suspect Cowell still falls into your final
category above. Can we start a baroque versus contemporary music
flamewar, or is it off-topic here?

No need so far as I am concerned. I have no objection to a range of music
on R3. Don't expect to like it all. Just relieved that we seem to have got
through the BBC 'fashions' for loads of atonal sic and authentic. I'm
sure some people like this, though, so should expect some to be broadcast.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:10:58 +0000, Eiron wrote:

Index:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/rpt60s_70to96.pdf

A couple of docs about PCM for FM transmission:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1970-18.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1975-23.pdf


Thanks, Eiron, Dave and Don for the information, I will follow this
up.

What specifically interests me are the effects, if any, of this type
of signal processing on transients, especially at high frequencies. I
believe that I can hear a difference between FM radio and CD in this
area and wish to investigate further. (The problem, if it exists,
could also be caused by well known FM artifacts, like multipath.)

When I get time, I will compare a recording of a CD of some recorder
music taken from a Radio 3 transmission against the CD. (My old dbx
cassette recorder had serious problems recording recorder music; the
initial transients were badly mashed.)


--
Chris Isbell
Southampton, UK

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:58:53 +0000, Chris Isbell
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 23:10:58 +0000, Eiron wrote:

Index:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/rpt60s_70to96.pdf

A couple of docs about PCM for FM transmission:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1970-18.pdf
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1975-23.pdf


Thanks, Eiron, Dave and Don for the information, I will follow this
up.

What specifically interests me are the effects, if any, of this type
of signal processing on transients, especially at high frequencies. I
believe that I can hear a difference between FM radio and CD in this
area and wish to investigate further. (The problem, if it exists,
could also be caused by well known FM artifacts, like multipath.)

When I get time, I will compare a recording of a CD of some recorder
music taken from a Radio 3 transmission against the CD. (My old dbx
cassette recorder had serious problems recording recorder music; the
initial transients were badly mashed.)

You will always hear a difference between FM and the CD. First, FM
cuts off hard at 15kHz (no longer a problem for me, I'm afraid) and
secondly there is a considerable amount of "processing" done to the
audio before it hits the transmitter. This will usually by an Orban
Optimod, which basically smashes hell out of the dynamics and makes
for the loud, dull music that the broadcasters seem to like.

Radio 3 on DAB, Freeview and satellite generally don't suffer this
indignity, and reach the transmitters more or less OK..

As for multipath, you will hear it mostly (FM) on sibilants - they
will cease to be smooth hisses, and become rasping, scratchy noises.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 10:05:04 GMT, (Don Pearce)
wrote:

You will always hear a difference between FM and the CD. First, FM
cuts off hard at 15kHz (no longer a problem for me, I'm afraid)

AOL Me too! /AOL

and
secondly there is a considerable amount of "processing" done to the
audio before it hits the transmitter. This will usually by an Orban
Optimod, which basically smashes hell out of the dynamics and makes
for the loud, dull music that the broadcasters seem to like.

What, even on Radio 3! I'm shocked.

Radio 3 on DAB, Freeview and satellite generally don't suffer this
indignity, and reach the transmitters more or less OK..

It's strange, but although I have Freeview and (FTA) satellite, I
still end up listening to FM. As Jim mentions in another post, this
may just be familiarity - or convenience. (FM is switch on, press
preset 3, select amplifier input, listen. Satellite is switch on,
switch on television, rotate dish, select channel from the thousands
available, select DAC input, select amplifier input, switch off
television, listen. So much for the convenience of digital. Even LPs
were easier than this.)

As for multipath, you will hear it mostly (FM) on sibilants - they
will cease to be smooth hisses, and become rasping, scratchy noises.

I looks like a trip into the loft again... :-(

Thanks,


--
Chris Isbell
Southampton, UK

In article ,
Chris Isbell wrote:
When I get time, I will compare a recording of a CD of some recorder
music taken from a Radio 3 transmission against the CD. (My old dbx
cassette recorder had serious problems recording recorder music; the
initial transients were badly mashed.)

All analogue tape systems have problems with transients, and noise
reduction systems merely make this worse.

Best instrument to show this up is a belltree. You'll not record one of
those 'clean' at any sort of level.

A 'jangling keys' test is good for this too and perhaps easier to arrange.

--
*It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Chris Isbell wrote:
It's strange, but although I have Freeview and (FTA) satellite, I
still end up listening to FM. As Jim mentions in another post, this
may just be familiarity - or convenience. (FM is switch on, press
preset 3, select amplifier input, listen. Satellite is switch on,
switch on television, rotate dish, select channel from the thousands
available, select DAC input, select amplifier input, switch off
television, listen. So much for the convenience of digital. Even LPs
were easier than this.)

IIRC, most recent FreeView STBs have a radio button which gives
immediate access to a favourites list. So you don't need to use the TV
screen menu.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 11:43:43 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Chris Isbell wrote:
It's strange, but although I have Freeview and (FTA) satellite, I
still end up listening to FM. As Jim mentions in another post, this
may just be familiarity - or convenience. (FM is switch on, press
preset 3, select amplifier input, listen. Satellite is switch on,
switch on television, rotate dish, select channel from the thousands
available, select DAC input, select amplifier input, switch off
television, listen. So much for the convenience of digital. Even LPs
were easier than this.)

IIRC, most recent FreeView STBs have a radio button which gives
immediate access to a favourites list. So you don't need to use the TV
screen menu.

There is even one - can't remember which - with the sense to display
the channel number on the box front as well as on the TV.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
IIRC, most recent FreeView STBs have a radio button which gives
immediate access to a favourites list. So you don't need to use the TV
screen menu.

There is even one - can't remember which - with the sense to display
the channel number on the box front as well as on the TV.

My original Philips did this - and the time when in standby.
Of course, you'd need to remember which channel number is which. ;-)

--
*When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:22:09 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:

Direct Cut = Sun Dive. It's not
difficult.................... :-)

I now have a voice to put to your words - thanks!

Here I am, brain the size of a planet,


???

:-)

(No comment - wouldn't be fair.... ;-)


and they want me to explain why
vinyl is obsolete........................


Go on then, I'm all ears and then perhaps you could explain just how CD is
*not* obsolete....???