"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Don Pearce

My understanding is that DAB has - in principle - the capability to
work very well indeed. The snag being that bean-counters have decided
that quantity counts for more than quality....


Did I not see: "So far I have carefully avoided listening to DAB."
somewhere recently....???

You did. :-)

(I would be very sorry to see *you* clambering aboard the 'Bull****
Bandwagon' in here, Jimbo!! I always thought your comments and opinions
were based on the very best of empirical testing methods and
first-hand, personal experience....??)

Yes and no. Where I can, I base my comments on my own experience and
understanding. However I also consider the views of others and try to
judge
them in terms of the evidence offerred, and how consistent they are with
physics, engineering practice, etc.


OK fine, but I made the remark I did because I'm noticing a trend toward
anecdotal, hearsay, 'magazine' and 'Google' wisdom creeping in here more and
more these days. One or two here have even managed to venture comments on my
recent Chinese amps (both ways - good and not so good and of no moment to me
either way) without having ever heard them. The sort of comment that implies
any self-received 'Audio Wunderkind' here can look at a circuit or hurl a
guess at an amplifier's 'likely topography' and make any form of meaningful,
definitive remark about its sound quality simply beggar's belief...!!!

(Well, it does with me - doesn't seem to worry a few here too much, I've
noticed....)

Interestingly the 'shortfall' I'm noticing with DAB (the CD-like 'thin',
'flat' and 'lifeless' presentation) is less pronounced on Classic FM which
can (I think - haven't made a serious comparison) actually sound better than
R3, listened to at some distance. (Remaind unlistenable 'close-up and
personal' though.....)

The parallel I see between DAB and CD is being reinforced on a daily basis
here atm - there's not a day goes by without some flyer comes through the
door mentioning DAB and I've no doubt whatsover that, now the industry has
woken up to what Joe Public will pay for a Radio (they got there in the end,
didn't they? :-), the unstoppable groundswell of 'digital cheap and easy'
will come into play once again and DAB will sweep all before it.

Be interesting to see the 'pundits' here starting to justify it, which will
be easy for them to do as soon as someone throws a sop to the 'bitrate
bitching' atm and shuts them up.....

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:22:09 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:

Direct Cut = Sun Dive. It's not
difficult.................... :-)

I now have a voice to put to your words - thanks!

Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they want me to explain why
vinyl is obsolete........................

When clearly you should be parking cars P

In article , Chris Isbell
wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 10:05:04 GMT, (Don Pearce)
wrote:

and secondly there is a considerable amount of "processing" done to
the audio before it hits the transmitter. This will usually by an Orban
Optimod, which basically smashes hell out of the dynamics and makes for
the loud, dull music that the broadcasters seem to like.

What, even on Radio 3! I'm shocked.

When I compared FM with DAB for the only example I had, there was a clearly
demonstable difference in the statistics of the probability distribution
levels of the short term signal power levels. FM was 'compressed' by about
6dB compared with DAB. In effect, the top 12dB of the range on DAB was
squeezed into 6dB on FM. This game me the impression that the perceived
peak/transient to mean level was reduced. May be one of the reasons why the
FM sounded a bit 'warmer' as the sustained parts of notes was at a higher
level w.r.t. transients.

Radio 3 on DAB, Freeview and satellite generally don't suffer this
indignity, and reach the transmitters more or less OK..

It's strange, but although I have Freeview and (FTA) satellite, I still
end up listening to FM. As Jim mentions in another post, this may just
be familiarity - or convenience. (FM is switch on, press preset 3,
select amplifier input, listen. Satellite is switch on, switch on
television, rotate dish, select channel from the thousands available,
select DAC input, select amplifier input, switch off television, listen.
So much for the convenience of digital. Even LPs were easier than this.)

Here FM is just "switch on power". I've set the system so that this makes
R3 or R4 appear as default. :-)

FWIW bear in mind that the typical levels of distortion on FM even with an
excellent tuner and reception will be the order of 0.1 percent or more,
probably rising somewhat above this for HF or transients. Comes from the
finite IF/detector bandwidth, group delay problems, etc, etc. These are
nominally absent from DTTV or DAB or CD-A.

Above said, I don't really notice the distortions I mention above, even
with a wet-string-in-loft antenna.

As for multipath, you will hear it mostly (FM) on sibilants - they will
cease to be smooth hisses, and become rasping, scratchy noises.

I looks like a trip into the loft again... :-(

Multipath is likely to make things worse so far as transient distortion is
concerned. :-/

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:


IIRC, most recent FreeView STBs have a radio button which gives
immediate access to a favourites list. So you don't need to use the TV
screen menu.

An annoyance with the Nokia 221T DTTV RX is that although you can change
channel by pressing in the required channel/station number, this is firmly
split into TV or Radio. To change from TV to radio or vice versa you have
to go via the menu navigation systems, so this involves more fiddling
about, and you tend to need the TV to watch the menus. Daft GUI and
ergonomics! Means you end up tending to switch on the TV to listen to the
radio via DTTV.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:22:09 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:

Direct Cut = Sun Dive. It's not
difficult.................... :-)

I now have a voice to put to your words - thanks!

Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they want me to explain why
vinyl is obsolete........................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Naw, just carry on parking cars.

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:22:09 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:

Direct Cut = Sun Dive. It's not
difficult.................... :-)

I now have a voice to put to your words - thanks!

Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they want me to explain why
vinyl is obsolete........................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Naw, just carry on parking cars :-)

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:22:09 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:

Direct Cut = Sun Dive. It's not
difficult.................... :-)

I now have a voice to put to your words - thanks!

Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they want me to explain why
vinyl is obsolete........................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Naw, just carry on parking cars :-)

Would you let him park yours? :-))

Iain

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
...
Can we start a baroque versus contemporary music flamewar, or is it
off-topic
here?

Only is we have a quorum of two people prepared to call each other '****s'
for
192 posts. We could start a genteel discussion, but the shock may not be
good
for our systems.

=== Andy Evans ===



Count me in. I like both genres, so I could flame from either
direction. That might be fun:-)

Period instruments, until you get used to them, sound decidedly
odd to the modern ear. A fortepiano by Mathaeus Heilmann
circa 1770 tends to remind many of the joanna in the public bar
of The Frog and Nightgown.


Cordially,

Iain

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:22:09 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:

Direct Cut = Sun Dive. It's not
difficult.................... :-)

I now have a voice to put to your words - thanks!

Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they want me to explain why
vinyl is obsolete........................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Naw, just carry on parking cars :-)

Would you let him park yours? :-))

Iain



A paranoid robot double blind parking - I think not...

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 14:22:44 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:22:09 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:

Direct Cut = Sun Dive. It's not
difficult.................... :-)

I now have a voice to put to your words - thanks!

Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they want me to explain why
vinyl is obsolete........................

When clearly you should be parking cars P

And pumpin' gas............

Ooops, wrong song! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering