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Neil Young prefers vinyl
I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is
to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:49:41 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:
I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". Yup, and he is *one* recording artist out of thousands. Furthermore, his stuff is heavily EQ'd and overproduced pop crap, so who knows what it's supposed to sound like? Finally, if he also likes DVD-A, which sounds *nothing* like vinyl, what does that tell you? Now, try to find *one* jazz or classical artist who wants his pure and natural master tape sound mangled by vinyl. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
Yup, and he is *one* recording artist out of thousands. Furthermore, his stuff is heavily EQ'd and overproduced pop crap, so who knows what it's supposed to sound like? Excuse me? "Neil Young == overproduced pop crap"??? His music is anything but pop crap. Call it bluesy, folksy, country and rock (not for nothing is he known as the Godfather of Grunge), but definitely not pop crap. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
Tat Chan wrote:
Stewart Pinkerton wrote: Yup, and he is *one* recording artist out of thousands. Furthermore, his stuff is heavily EQ'd and overproduced pop crap, so who knows what it's supposed to sound like? Excuse me? "Neil Young == overproduced pop crap"??? His music is anything but pop crap. Call it bluesy, folksy, country and rock (not for nothing is he known as the Godfather of Grunge), but definitely not pop crap. One of the best around - live and recorded. I think SP might be referring to one particular album - I personally don't think it was overproduced, but the vocal went through one of those voice synth things (really to highlight the problems for those without speech). How anyone could consider After the Goldrush 'pop crap' or 'overproduced' defeats me (or any track from Decade for that matter). Rob |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
In article ,
JustMe wrote: I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Well, yes. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." Then he didn't like the master tape. -- *I yell because I care Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line"
is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". Yup, and he is *one* recording artist out of thousands. Furthermore, his stuff is heavily EQ'd and overproduced pop crap, so who knows what it's supposed to sound like? Finally, if he also likes DVD-A, which sounds *nothing* like vinyl, what does that tell you? Now, try to find *one* jazz or classical artist who wants his pure and natural master tape sound mangled by vinyl. Sure he's *one* recording artist. That does not invalidate his opinion in any way. You do youself a disservice with this reply, coming across like an old fart who simply dislikes "pop" music and who dismisses the entire - and often highly creative - production process when it doesn't suit his own agenda. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , JustMe wrote: I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Well, yes. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." Then he didn't like the master tape. -- *I yell because I care Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. It appears to me that NY is comparing previous analogue records to the new vinyl versions and not the new vinyl versions to the analogue master copy |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , JustMe wrote: I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Well, yes. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." Then he didn't like the master tape. -- *I yell because I care Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. It appears to me that NY is comparing previous analogue records to the new vinyl versions and not the new vinyl versions to the analogue master copy That's how it read to me. He says that, of the options available before the new release, vinyl was his medium of preference and that the new release on vinyl is even better than the original. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"JustMe" wrote in message ... I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. No, there are plenty here who are more impressed by a warm coloured sound than "unsullied and uncoloured" reproduction. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". I don't see where it says NY "sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a true replica". It just says he prefers the sound. Roy. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
In article ,
JustMe wrote: It appears to me that NY is comparing previous analogue records to the new vinyl versions and not the new vinyl versions to the analogue master copy That's how it read to me. He says that, of the options available before the new release, vinyl was his medium of preference and that the new release on vinyl is even better than the original. Of course it could be he just prefers the sound of his voice as recorded with added distortion as from an LP. Plenty of musicians prefer the sound of their voice on dreadful PA mics rather than studio quality ones. However, that's got nowt to do with the price of fish. -- *Why is it that rain drops but snow falls? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , JustMe wrote: It appears to me that NY is comparing previous analogue records to the new vinyl versions and not the new vinyl versions to the analogue master copy That's how it read to me. He says that, of the options available before the new release, vinyl was his medium of preference and that the new release on vinyl is even better than the original. Of course it could be he just prefers the sound of his voice as recorded with added distortion as from an LP. Plenty of musicians prefer the sound of their voice on dreadful PA mics rather than studio quality ones. ........ then in mastering they process the sound just like the dreadful ones again..read artistic license ;-) However, that's got nowt to do with the price of fish. -- *Why is it that rain drops but snow falls? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Tat Chan" wrote in message ... The blurb on the back of the Decade CD says "The music on this Compact Disc was originally recorded on analog equipment. We have attempted to preserve, as closely as possible, the sound of the original recording. Because of its high resolution, however, the Compact Disc can reveal limitations of the source tape." That normally means you can hear the tape hiss. Roy. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
Rob wrote:
Call it bluesy, folksy, country and rock (not for nothing is he known as the Godfather of Grunge), but definitely not pop crap. One of the best around - live and recorded. I think SP might be referring to one particular album - I personally don't think it was overproduced, but the vocal went through one of those voice synth things (really to highlight the problems for those without speech). The album was Trans |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
Rob wrote:
Tat Chan wrote: Excuse me? "Neil Young == overproduced pop crap"??? His music is anything but pop crap. Call it bluesy, folksy, country and rock (not for nothing is he known as the Godfather of Grunge), but definitely not pop crap. One of the best around - live and recorded. I think SP might be referring to one particular album - I personally don't think it was overproduced, but the vocal went through one of those voice synth things (really to highlight the problems for those without speech). Ah, the "Transformer" album. How anyone could consider After the Goldrush 'pop crap' or 'overproduced' defeats me (or any track from Decade for that matter). I have Decade on CD, and it sounds "warm and fuzzy", very "analogue like". There was no mention of digital remastering for the CD (perhaps they did a straight transfer from an n-th generation copy, maybe even from vinyl?) The blurb on the back of the Decade CD says "The music on this Compact Disc was originally recorded on analog equipment. We have attempted to preserve, as closely as possible, the sound of the original recording. Because of its high resolution, however, the Compact Disc can reveal limitations of the source tape." |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Roy" roy wrote in message ... "Tat Chan" wrote in message ... The blurb on the back of the Decade CD says "The music on this Compact Disc was originally recorded on analog equipment. We have attempted to preserve, as closely as possible, the sound of the original recording. Because of its high resolution, however, the Compact Disc can reveal limitations of the source tape." That normally means you can hear the tape hiss. ;-) |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Roy" roy wrote in message ...
"JustMe" wrote in message ... I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. No, there are plenty here who are more impressed by a warm coloured sound than "unsullied and uncoloured" reproduction. That's not what I said. I referred to people's perception of the philosphy behind "striaght-line", not what sound most impresses people. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". I don't see where it says NY "sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a true replica". It just says he prefers the sound. Further quotes from the article: "A long-time fan of analogue and a trenchant critic of CD sound, Young reckons he has finally found a modern digital format to meet his exacting standards" [2 channel DVD-Audio]. "There's just no comparicson between DVD-Audio and a regular compact disc or even 5.1 multichannel sound. It's the difference between a true reflection of the music and a mere replica." He then goes on to say, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me" etc. I read that as saying that he is not happy with CD, that of the digital formats he feels DVD-Audio is a "true reflection of the music", and that vinyl sounds best of all the formats. Roy. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Keith G" wrote in message
... "Roy" roy wrote in message ... "Tat Chan" wrote in message ... The blurb on the back of the Decade CD says "The music on this Compact Disc was originally recorded on analog equipment. We have attempted to preserve, as closely as possible, the sound of the original recording. Because of its high resolution, however, the Compact Disc can reveal limitations of the source tape." That normally means you can hear the tape hiss. ;-) The article is referring to his "Greatest Hits", released yesterday (22nd), apparently on a choice of CD, vinyl and DVD-Audio. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 03:33:21 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:
Further quotes from the article: "A long-time fan of analogue and a trenchant critic of CD sound, Young reckons he has finally found a modern digital format to meet his exacting standards" [2 channel DVD-Audio]. "There's just no comparicson between DVD-Audio and a regular compact disc or even 5.1 multichannel sound. It's the difference between a true reflection of the music and a mere replica." He then goes on to say, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me" etc. I read that as saying that he is not happy with CD, that of the digital formats he feels DVD-Audio is a "true reflection of the music", and that vinyl sounds best of all the formats. I read that as total bull****, since DVD-A is audibly indistiguishable from the master tape - as is well-made CD for the most part. Vinyl OTOH sounds massively different. NY might be able to sing a bit, but his audio opinions suck bigtime. If he prefers the sound of vinyl, then that simply means that he likes his recordings EQ'd a certain way. If he didn't have this bull**** prejudice against CD, he'd simply express a preference for different EQ to warm up his recordings a bit, add a touch more reverb etc etc. It ain't rocket science! -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:43:18 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:
I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". Yup, and he is *one* recording artist out of thousands. Furthermore, his stuff is heavily EQ'd and overproduced pop crap, so who knows what it's supposed to sound like? Finally, if he also likes DVD-A, which sounds *nothing* like vinyl, what does that tell you? Now, try to find *one* jazz or classical artist who wants his pure and natural master tape sound mangled by vinyl. Sure he's *one* recording artist. That does not invalidate his opinion in any way. However, the lack of any other reputable recording artist with the same opinion, certainly does. Further, since DVD-A sounds *nothing* like vinyl, to claim to like both is the most cynical bull****ting I've seen in quite a while. You do youself a disservice with this reply, coming across like an old fart who simply dislikes "pop" music Well, given the vast amopunt of crap that's on the market today, that might be a fair assessment. and who dismisses the entire - and often highly creative - production process when it doesn't suit his own agenda. I have no 'agenda' other than preferring that what goes into my speakers is as close as possible to what came off the mixdown master. You come across as a young fart who doesn't understand what happens *before* the master is made. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:43:18 -0000, "JustMe" wrote: I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". Yup, and he is *one* recording artist out of thousands. Furthermore, his stuff is heavily EQ'd and overproduced pop crap, so who knows what it's supposed to sound like? Finally, if he also likes DVD-A, which sounds *nothing* like vinyl, what does that tell you? Now, try to find *one* jazz or classical artist who wants his pure and natural master tape sound mangled by vinyl. Sure he's *one* recording artist. That does not invalidate his opinion in any way. However, the lack of any other reputable recording artist with the same opinion, certainly does. Further, since DVD-A sounds *nothing* like vinyl, to claim to like both is the most cynical bull****ting I've seen in quite a while. You do youself a disservice with this reply, coming across like an old fart who simply dislikes "pop" music Well, given the vast amopunt of crap that's on the market today, that might be a fair assessment. Maybe you could better express this so that it doesn't sound like you're responses (e.g. quote below) on other issues are prejudiced by your dislike for certain music? and who dismisses the entire - and often highly creative - production process when it doesn't suit his own agenda. I have no 'agenda' other than preferring that what goes into my speakers is as close as possible to what came off the mixdown master. "His stuff is heavily EQ'd and overproduced pop crap, so who knows what it's supposed to sound like?" Is any work carried out beyond that which is captured from a live microphone irrelevant to what the artist would consider is a "completed" piece? You come across as a young fart who doesn't understand what happens *before* the master is made. If artists' desire their finished product includes post-production work, then what's the problem? Maybe I don't understand your POV here. What music do you listen to? Only it sounds like you dislike any form of recording and production, beyond the capturing of live sound via microphone. If that's an incorrect conclusion, then please can you clarify your preference - or lack of it? |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
In article ,
JustMe wrote: "A long-time fan of analogue and a trenchant critic of CD sound, Young reckons he has finally found a modern digital format to meet his exacting standards" [2 channel DVD-Audio]. "There's just no comparicson between DVD-Audio and a regular compact disc or even 5.1 multichannel sound. It's the difference between a true reflection of the music and a mere replica." He then goes on to say, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me" etc. A CD - or DVD-Audio - which is a straight 1 to 1 copy of the master tape will sound just like that master tape regardless if it's analogue or digital. An LP won't. Just about anyone will tell the difference instantly. If he says he prefers LP to CD, but DVD-Audio to both, he's a fool or charlatan. -- *If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
JustMe awoke the sleeping dragons when he wrote
Just reading an interview with Neil Young . . . .. . .and whatever your point of view about whether dragons are most enjoyable with a vinyl finish or silvery reflective scales, it made me go and dig my copies of 'Harvest' and 'After the goldrush' out last night for the first time in a while (1). 'Harvest' is especially fine, and the title of one of the tracks might be used by some here with an alternative slant . .. . but the pair of them fair took me back a while. Hang it all, I might indulge myself again tonight. Throw the cat a goldfish and pass me those albums! T. (1)To keep the balance, one was on CD and the other vinyl. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Tony Buckley" wrote in message ... JustMe awoke the sleeping dragons when he wrote Just reading an interview with Neil Young . . . . . .and whatever your point of view about whether dragons are most enjoyable with a vinyl finish or silvery reflective scales, it made me go and dig my copies of 'Harvest' and 'After the goldrush' out last night for the first time in a while (1). 'Harvest' is especially fine, and the title of one of the tracks might be used by some here with an alternative slant . . . but the pair of them fair took me back a while. Hang it all, I might indulge myself again tonight. Throw the cat a goldfish and pass me those albums! T. (1)To keep the balance, one was on CD and the other vinyl. Well stone a crows Mary Poppins I did exactly the same thing! I'll state no preferences here.. but pass me those albums ;-) |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
... "Tony Buckley" wrote in message ... JustMe awoke the sleeping dragons when he wrote Just reading an interview with Neil Young . . . . . .and whatever your point of view about whether dragons are most enjoyable with a vinyl finish or silvery reflective scales, it made me go and dig my copies of 'Harvest' and 'After the goldrush' out last night for the first time in a while (1). 'Harvest' is especially fine, and the title of one of the tracks might be used by some here with an alternative slant . . . but the pair of them fair took me back a while. Hang it all, I might indulge myself again tonight. Throw the cat a goldfish and pass me those albums! T. (1)To keep the balance, one was on CD and the other vinyl. Well stone a crows Mary Poppins I did exactly the same thing! I'll state no preferences here.. but pass me those albums ;-) Likewise :o) |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 12:43:18 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:
Sure he's *one* recording artist. That does not invalidate his opinion in any way. Without diving into the vinyl vs digital debate, I offer the observation that Neil Young has regularly commented that his hearing is shot after years of abuse from performing rock concerts. I suspect that may invalidate his opinion slightly. I'm a big NY fan all the same. tom. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"JustMe" wrote in message ... Further quotes from the article: "A long-time fan of analogue and a trenchant critic of CD sound, Young reckons he has finally found a modern digital format to meet his exacting standards" [2 channel DVD-Audio]. "There's just no comparicson between DVD-Audio and a regular compact disc or even 5.1 multichannel sound. It's the difference between a true reflection of the music and a mere replica." He then goes on to say, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me" etc. I read that as saying that he is not happy with CD, that of the digital formats he feels DVD-Audio is a "true reflection of the music", and that vinyl sounds best of all the formats. Oh right, now you give me the full story. But it still only he says he prefers the sound of vinyl. It doesn't say he "sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a true replica". If he did, I'd simply have to assume he has cloth ears. It does beg the question though - does he like the original master? Roy. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:11:42 +0000, Kurt Hamster
wrote: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 07:11:36 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton used to say... On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:49:41 -0000, "JustMe" wrote: I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". Yup, and he is *one* recording artist out of thousands. Furthermore, his stuff is heavily EQ'd and overproduced pop crap, so who knows what it's supposed to sound like? Finally, if he also likes DVD-A, which sounds *nothing* like vinyl, what does that tell you? Now, try to find *one* jazz or classical artist who wants his pure and natural master tape sound mangled by vinyl. Tut, tut. Showing your own prejudices now eh? It's not prejudice when it's based on the outcomes of many trials. Check any dictionary..................... -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"JustMe" wrote in message
... I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". I've just been listening to a CD of Neil Young's Tonight's the Night, an album I'm very familiar with. I listened to it through my Sennheiser HD 580 headphones using a Musical Fidelity X Cans V3 headphone amp and a Cambridge Audio D500 CD player. Although I tried to enjoy the music, I couldn't help thinking how much it was grating my 46 year old ears. I heard greater detail then I remember, including laughter in the opening track amongst other things. But I kept wanting to turn the volume down when it grated, and up when I felt I just wasn't hearing enough. There was a hard edge to the music that really bothered me. On the weekend I played an old scratchy vinyl version of Tonight's the Night on my 20 year old Technics turntable (with it's original needle) and, even though it skipped (once), popped and crackled, I just ended up wanting to turn it up and up. I was about to concede that, regardless of its imperfections, vinyl just sounded so much better. But then I put on a CD of Neils' newer (and underrated) Sleeps With Angels, and it sounded wonderful. No hard edges. No grating. I also have a CD of Benjamin Britten's Cello Symphony with Mstislav Rostropovich (Decca 425 100-2), which was recorded in 1964. Although there is a certain amount of tape hiss, of my 1200 + CDs (mostly classical), this is one of my favorites sonically and emotionally. All I can conclude from my own experiences is that it's not the medium that's important, but the way the music is mastered. If Neil Young (as well as countless other artists and their works--Yes's Close to the Edge comes immediately to mind) would have remastered his works for a vinyl-conditioned audience by upping the bass and darker tones a bit, I'm certain that he wouldn't be yearning for the warmth of vinyl today. Most of his earlier CDs sound like crap. BTW I wouldn't be listening to mostly classical today if not for the doors that Neil Young's and Frank Zappa's abstract guitar jams opened up for me. Keep it lit, Roland Goetz. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Spiderant" wrote in message
news:xQUod.317587$nl.7866@pd7tw3no... "JustMe" wrote in message ... I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". I've just been listening to a CD of Neil Young's Tonight's the Night, an album I'm very familiar with. I listened to it through my Sennheiser HD 580 headphones using a Musical Fidelity X Cans V3 headphone amp and a Cambridge Audio D500 CD player. Although I tried to enjoy the music, I couldn't help thinking how much it was grating my 46 year old ears. I heard greater detail then I remember, including laughter in the opening track amongst other things. But I kept wanting to turn the volume down when it grated, and up when I felt I just wasn't hearing enough. There was a hard edge to the music that really bothered me. On the weekend I played an old scratchy vinyl version of Tonight's the Night on my 20 year old Technics turntable (with it's original needle) and, even though it skipped (once), popped and crackled, I just ended up wanting to turn it up and up. I was about to concede that, regardless of its imperfections, vinyl just sounded so much better. But then I put on a CD of Neils' newer (and underrated) Sleeps With Angels, and it sounded wonderful. No hard edges. No grating. I also have a CD of Benjamin Britten's Cello Symphony with Mstislav Rostropovich (Decca 425 100-2), which was recorded in 1964. Although there is a certain amount of tape hiss, of my 1200 + CDs (mostly classical), this is one of my favorites sonically and emotionally. All I can conclude from my own experiences is that it's not the medium that's important, but the way the music is mastered. If Neil Young (as well as countless other artists and their works--Yes's Close to the Edge comes immediately to mind) would have remastered his works for a vinyl-conditioned audience by upping the bass and darker tones a bit, I'm certain that he wouldn't be yearning for the warmth of vinyl today. Most of his earlier CDs sound like crap. BTW I wouldn't be listening to mostly classical today if not for the doors that Neil Young's and Frank Zappa's abstract guitar jams opened up for me. Keep it lit, Roland Goetz. I agree about production in that it has a massive influence on the sound-quality of a recording. It may well be that the older production was deliberately hard-edged, or that today he takes advantage of superior techniques. His voice can sound quite sharp and tracks like Southern Man seem to have this emphasised with distortion added to his vocal., which serves to reinforce the song's sentiment. Don't Let it Bring You Down has none of the same edge, none of the distortion on his voice and employs an acoustic rather than an electric guitar-lead arrangement. As a result his voice sounds sweeter and the track sounds less "edgy". Given that these are from the same album, it seems pretty clear that these are deliberate production choices and that the hard edge in this case was quite deliberate. I don't hold with the idea that vinyl is "warm". Vinyl can sound bright, dry, sharp etc. For me the difference is one of "projection". The sound to my ears is more "out of the box" - it delivers greater dimension and presence and it involves me more in the music, compared with CD which seems flatter and lacks the same involvement. Why that should be and what it is that causes these perceptions, I don't know but I am not the only one and, as long as that remains the case, I shall chose vinyl over CD. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"JustMe" wrote I don't hold with the idea that vinyl is "warm". Vinyl can sound bright, dry, sharp etc. For me the difference is one of "projection". The sound to my ears is more "out of the box" - it delivers greater dimension and presence and it involves me more in the music, compared with CD which seems flatter and lacks the same involvement. Ditto in toto.... Why that should be and what it is that causes these perceptions, I don't know but I am not the only one and, as long as that remains the case, I shall chose vinyl over CD. Me too - so that's two of us against the *whole world* then!! (Or, *is* it....??? ;-) |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"JustMe" wrote in message ... "Spiderant" wrote in message news:xQUod.317587$nl.7866@pd7tw3no... "JustMe" wrote in message ... I agree about production in that it has a massive influence on the sound-quality of a recording. It may well be that the older production was deliberately hard-edged, or that today he takes advantage of superior techniques. His voice can sound quite sharp and tracks like Southern Man seem to have this emphasised with distortion added to his vocal., which serves to reinforce the song's sentiment. Don't Let it Bring You Down has none of the same edge, none of the distortion on his voice and employs an acoustic rather than an electric guitar-lead arrangement. As a result his voice sounds sweeter and the track sounds less "edgy". Given that these are from the same album, it seems pretty clear that these are deliberate production choices and that the hard edge in this case was quite deliberate. I don't hold with the idea that vinyl is "warm". Vinyl can sound bright, dry, sharp etc. For me the difference is one of "projection". The sound to my ears is more "out of the box" - it delivers greater dimension and presence and it involves me more in the music, compared with CD which seems flatter and lacks the same involvement. Why that should be and what it is that causes these perceptions, I don't know but I am not the only one and, as long as that remains the case, I shall chose vinyl over CD. I keep my old turntable because I have records that aren't available on CD ("Time Fades Away", Jascha Heifetz playing Beethoven's Kreutzer, etc.). I'd like to think that once the CDs are available, I'll give my records and turntable away to the Salvation Army. But the other day I got the urge to listen to Kraftwerk's "Radio Activity" and got totally sucked into the music. This seems to happen a lot more than when I listen to CDs. It feels to me that the music coming off of vinyl has more presence, even though I'm convinced that CDs offer greater detail with a lot less noise. Although I hate to admit it (I've invested a lot of money in CDs), I just find that I'm just getting off on the music coming from my records a more often than the music from my CDs. When I'm playing records, I just want to turn up the volume. When I'm playing CDs, it seems like I'm trying too hard to enjoy the music. As an example, I have two versions of Glen Gould playing Bach's Goldberg Variations. The first few times I played the vinyl version, I kept turning it down because I was freaked out by a strange voice I kept hearing. I thought that there was someone else in the apartment with me. It turned out to be Glen Gould humming along with his playing. When I listen to the CD version of the same recording, I can hear his humming, but it doesn't seem separate from the music in the same way. The details are there, but the sense of presence is missing. Similarly, when playing Yes's "Close to the Edge," there's a part when Rick Wakeman begins a terrific organ/synh solo and, if you listen carefully, you can hear someone in the background prompting him on: "Yeah. Oh yeah." It's on the "remastered" CD as well, but just doesn't sound separate from the music. And I get the urge to turn up the record, whereas I get the urge to turn down the CD. It is actually very disheartening. I'm going to pick up Neil Young's Greatest Hits with the bonus DVD and try and do some A/B comparisons to see if the DVD version is, as Neil suggests, better. But will I sense his presence as much as on my vinyl versions (of the same songs), I somehow don't think so. Keep it lit, Roland Goetz. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
In article qmcpd.325023$%k.291216@pd7tw2no, Spiderant wrote:
"JustMe" wrote in message ... Why that should be and what it is that causes these perceptions, I don't know but I am not the only one and, as long as that remains the case, I shall chose vinyl over CD. As an example, I have two versions of Glen Gould playing Bach's Goldberg Variations. The first few times I played the vinyl version, I kept turning it down because I was freaked out by a strange voice I kept hearing. I thought that there was someone else in the apartment with me. It turned out to be Glen Gould humming along with his playing. When I listen to the CD version of the same recording, I can hear his humming, but it doesn't seem separate from the music in the same way. The details are there, but the sense of presence is missing. ... A very interesting example. I assume this is Gould's 1981 "digital" recording [1]. A stunning performance [2]. However, you have to be careful about just what's on the CDs and the vinyl. There was a digital recording and an analogue recording made at the same time as a backup in case the very early digital recording was not good enough. The first CDs (and *I assume* the vinyl release - can you verify this) were made from the digital master. I have a fully digital CD. Recently Sony have released CDs ("A State of Wonder") where the 1981 performance is re-mastered from the analogue back-up recording. I have one of these as well. The sound of Gould's humming is very different between the two CDs. On my "digital" CD I find Gould's humming very disturbing. To me it sounds so real but so disconnected from the music that I keep thinking there's someone else in the house - precisely like your experience of the vinyl. On my "analogue" CD the humming is just as obvious but it "integrates" much better with the music and is clearly coming from the performance soundstage. It doesn't disturb me like the "digital" CD. Which is better? The hi-fi enthusiasts at "Stereophile" (on the web) seem to like the "analogue" CD and claim it has better resolution. I don't hear this in the same way. However, from my experience with the two CDs, maybe the CD you have is the "analogue" version and the vinyl is the "digital" version - you may possibly be comparing apples with oranges in this case. [1] The 1981 is the recording where Gould's humming is most pronounced. [2] The Gramophone's reviewers agree but the Penguin Guide's reviewers unaccountably mark it down for Gould's inconsistent observance of the repeats. They perfer recordings like Hewitt's which is burnished perfection as a performance but not musically as satisfying (to me, anyway). -- John Phillips |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Spiderant" wrote I keep my old turntable because I have records that aren't available on CD ("Time Fades Away", Jascha Heifetz playing Beethoven's Kreutzer, etc.). I'd like to think that once the CDs are available, I'll give my records and turntable away to the Salvation Army. But the other day I got the urge to listen to Kraftwerk's "Radio Activity" and got totally sucked into the music. This seems to happen a lot more than when I listen to CDs. It feels to me that the music coming off of vinyl has more presence, even though I'm convinced that CDs offer greater detail with a lot less noise. Although I hate to admit it (I've invested a lot of money in CDs), I just find that I'm just getting off on the music coming from my records a more often than the music from my CDs. When I'm playing records, I just want to turn up the volume. When I'm playing CDs, it seems like I'm trying too hard to enjoy the music. Well put - says it all in a nutshell!! Forget all the bull**** about 'accuracy', just go with want you want to hear 'more of' and don't worry so much about what you want to hear 'less of'. Audio reproduction is about fulfilling emotional needs, not creating straight lines on bits of paper when it gets to the 'end user' stage.... As an example, I have two versions of Glen Gould playing Bach's Goldberg Variations. The first few times I played the vinyl version, I kept turning it down because I was freaked out by a strange voice I kept hearing. I thought that there was someone else in the apartment with me. It turned out to be Glen Gould humming along with his playing. When I listen to the CD version of the same recording, I can hear his humming, but it doesn't seem separate from the music in the same way. The details are there, but the sense of presence is missing. Similarly, when playing Yes's "Close to the Edge," there's a part when Rick Wakeman begins a terrific organ/synh solo and, if you listen carefully, you can hear someone in the background prompting him on: "Yeah. Oh yeah." It's on the "remastered" CD as well, but just doesn't sound separate from the music. And I get the urge to turn up the record, whereas I get the urge to turn down the CD. Again, you are describing very well that which keeps 'vinylists' plugging away with a difficult and expensive format over the 'quick, cheap and easy' modern substitutes.... (No contest in my book.... ;-) It is actually very disheartening. I'm going to pick up Neil Young's Greatest Hits with the bonus DVD and try and do some A/B comparisons to see if the DVD version is, as Neil suggests, better. But will I sense his presence as much as on my vinyl versions (of the same songs), I somehow don't think so. Go with 'Option C' (my lifetime philosophy), which equals 'Options A + B' where A is vinyl and B is CD/DVD or whatever (or vice versa) - IOW, aim for the best of both worlds. Ignore ludicrous suggestions here that the formats are mutually exclusive, even if you do have a strong preference for either one..... (I've finally got my CDs juiced up with EL34 amps and they are sounding quite good - for CDs..... ;-) |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
In article , Keith G
wrote: "Spiderant" wrote I keep my old turntable because I have records that aren't available on CD ("Time Fades Away", Jascha Heifetz playing Beethoven's Kreutzer, etc.). I'd like to think that once the CDs are available, Must admit I'm surprised that something like the Heifetz hasn't been available on CD-A... I'll give my records and turntable away to the Salvation Army. But the other day I got the urge to listen to Kraftwerk's "Radio Activity" and got totally sucked into the music. This seems to happen a lot more than when I listen to CDs. It feels to me that the music coming off of vinyl has more presence, even though I'm convinced that CDs offer greater detail with a lot less noise. Although I hate to admit it (I've invested a lot of money in CDs), I just find that I'm just getting off on the music coming from my records a more often than the music from my CDs. When I'm playing records, I just want to turn up the volume. When I'm playing CDs, it seems like I'm trying too hard to enjoy the music. Well put - says it all in a nutshell!! Forget all the bull**** about 'accuracy', just go with want you want to hear 'more of' and don't worry so much about what you want to hear 'less of'. Audio reproduction is about fulfilling emotional needs, not creating straight lines on bits of paper when it gets to the 'end user' stage.... I'd agree in general terms. However my personal experience is that I slowly ceased bothering to listen to LPs very as my CD-A collection grew. The results on CD-A generally sound excellent to me when playing performances/ recordings that suit my taste. As an example, I have two versions of Glen Gould playing Bach's Goldberg Variations. The first few times I played the vinyl version, I kept turning it down because I was freaked out by a strange voice I kept hearing. I thought that there was someone else in the apartment with me. It turned out to be Glen Gould humming along with his playing. When I listen to the CD version of the same recording, I can hear his humming, but it doesn't seem separate from the music in the same way. The details are there, but the sense of presence is missing. Similarly, when playing Yes's "Close to the Edge," there's a part when Rick Wakeman begins a terrific organ/synh solo and, if you listen carefully, you can hear someone in the background prompting him on: "Yeah. Oh yeah." It's on the "remastered" CD as well, but just doesn't sound separate from the music. And I get the urge to turn up the record, whereas I get the urge to turn down the CD. My experience is that things like this may be affected by various factors. Distortion and noise levels, levels of crosstalk, frequency response, etc. Varies on a case-by-case basis, and judgements depend upon taste and choice of equipment, etc. My experience/judgement is that CD-A simply scores on being more consistently enjoyable with less fuss. TBH I now probably listen to less than one LP per year. Too busy enjoying music via CD-As (and, now DVD-V's... :-) ) Again, you are describing very well that which keeps 'vinylists' plugging away with a difficult and expensive format over the 'quick, cheap and easy' modern substitutes.... (No contest in my book.... ;-) Nor in mine. Seems pointless to make it a 'contest'. :-) Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:49:41 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:
I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". I happen to think Neil Young is part of the trinity of the three great white men of popular music still alive - Bob, Van and Neil. Neil is not talking about vinyl being a hifi source. In fact I don't believe Neil is interested in HiFi as discussed by wonks here and elsewhere. Neil has always been interested in a certain "feel" and spontaneity to his music. A certain sound is part of that. In his opinion vinyl can be part of that sound. Don't forget we are talking about a guy here who likes a wall of noise. We are also talking of a guy who when mixing down is known to place a stack of speakers on the wall of a dam on his farm and sit out in the middle of the lake and listen. As much as I worship Neil I wouldn't take his advice on HiFi. Lou Reed on the other hand can [and does for hours] talk HiFi. ... F X Holden |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Francis Xavier Holden" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:49:41 -0000, "JustMe" wrote: I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". I happen to think Neil Young is part of the trinity of the three great white men of popular music still alive - Bob, Van and Neil. Only three? Not that I have any problem with your choices, but what elevates them above the 100s of other pop musicians from the last 50 years? Why not David Bowie, Paul McCartney or Tom Waits (off the top of my head), for instance? One day we'll get over this devisive obsession of specifying "white" and "black" :o/ |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 02:45:33 -0000, "JustMe" wrote:
"Francis Xavier Holden" wrote in message .. . I happen to think Neil Young is part of the trinity of the three great white men of popular music still alive - Bob, Van and Neil. Only three? Actually, only two once you remove Neil Young..... :-) Not that I have any problem with your choices, but what elevates them above the 100s of other pop musicians from the last 50 years? Why not David Bowie, Paul McCartney or Tom Waits (off the top of my head), for instance? One day we'll get over this devisive obsession of specifying "white" and "black" :o/ Interesting that it's seldom mentioned that Elvis got his first recording contracts on the basis of being a white kid with a black voice! -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 02:45:33 -0000, "JustMe" wrote: Interesting that it's seldom mentioned that Elvis got his first recording contracts on the basis of being a white kid with a black voice! The same was said about Dusty Springfield, and also Kiki Dee the first white vocalist to record on Tamla Motown. Iain |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"JustMe" wrote in message ...
I think everyone here would agree that the concept behind "Straight-line" is to deliver the music as the artist intended, unsullied and uncoloured - an accurate reflection of the artist's work. Just reading an interview with Neil Young (HiFi Choice, January 2005), in which he states, "The analogue records always sounded better than anything else to me. But I compared the new vinyl versions, which are taken from a first generation analogue master copy, and the best just got better. It's a really good feeling." To be fair and put this in context, he also speaks well of DVD-Audio, but it's clear that NY is one artist who sees vinyl as the source which is closest to a "true replica". But you are hardly likely to see an article that says CD is better than vinyl and all this audio nonesense, is just that.... Are you? These types of mags only publish stuff that goes with there current way of thinking. I have never repeat NEVER seen a review or article that say.... Sounds the same as the last one..... or similar words When in my long years, that actually is the response I think when I change something 9 times out of 10. I just bother with them anymore. |
Neil Young prefers vinyl
"John" wrote in message om... But you are hardly likely to see an article that says CD is better than vinyl and all this audio nonesense, is just that.... Are you? Er, stating the bleeding obvious perhaps (fan those flames). Roy. |
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