Anyone got them? I auditioned a pair today - I hadn't got my own choice of
CDs with me and the selection of classical music in the shop was poor.
However I was impressed. Are they as good as I thought they sounded at first
hearing?
If I buy them they will be replacing Rogers LS3/5a's and LS1 subwoofer in a
larger listening room. My amp, which I do not want to change, is a Quad
34/405 recently overhauled and performing "as new." Will this be sufficient?
Any other comments will be appreciated.

D.

I have older SMGa speakers - too large for my new listening room, so yours for
£150. Similar size, if I remember rightly, but older technology. Andy Evans

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

In article , dersu wrote:
Anyone got them? I auditioned a pair today - I hadn't got my own choice
of CDs with me and the selection of classical music in the shop was
poor. However I was impressed. Are they as good as I thought they
sounded at first hearing? If I buy them they will be replacing Rogers
LS3/5a's and LS1 subwoofer in a larger listening room. My amp, which I
do not want to change, is a Quad 34/405 recently overhauled and
performing "as new." Will this be sufficient? Any other comments will be
appreciated.

I would be cautious of assuming the 405 would be an appropriate power amp
for the Magneplanar speakers.

IIRC Magneplanar speakers have a general reputation for having low
impedances. I've just looked at some reviews of the 1.6QR and they seem to
report that it has a 'typical' resistance of 4 Ohms.

You do not say what version of the 405 you have, nor if the overhaul has
actually brought it up to the performance of 'late' versions, or to its
orginal state. However the early version of the 405 had quite 'strict'
current limiting.

The (potential) problem is that if the amp can only supply the order of 5
Amps, then that will only give about 20V across a 4 Ohm load. i.e. about
half what the 405 can supply into higher impedance loads. The amp can
probably do better than 5 Amps, but you may find the peak levels you can
get are current limited.

If you only listen at modest or low sound levels and are not in a large
room, the above may not matter at all as you may not be wishing to produce
high levels, and hence any current limitations of the 405 may not matter in
your case.

You are unlikely to get this problem with LS3/5A's as they have a
relatively high impedance in most of their incarnations. :-)

What amp did the shop use when demo-ing the Magneplanar speakers?

As with Electrostatics, the Magneplanars tend to interact with the room
acoustic in a different way to conventional 'cone-and-box' speakers. Hence
this is something else you may need to consider.

Thus the suitability may depend on your taste in music, the levels you like
to listen to, and the listening room. Hence it is hard to be more specific
in answering your questions without more info.

Will the shop either let you try the speakers before you buy, and/or
perhaps let you take the 34/405 into the shop and use them there to drive
the speakers?

FWIW I personally prefer 'panel' speakers - in my case the Quad ESL's - to
conventional types. Hence I am not trying to discourage you from choosing
the Magneplanar speakers. But I would be wary of using a 405 to drive them.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In message , Jim Lesurf
writes
In article , dersu wrote:
Anyone got them? I auditioned a pair today - I hadn't got my own choice
of CDs with me and the selection of classical music in the shop was
poor. However I was impressed. Are they as good as I thought they
sounded at first hearing? If I buy them they will be replacing Rogers
LS3/5a's and LS1 subwoofer in a larger listening room. My amp, which I
do not want to change, is a Quad 34/405 recently overhauled and
performing "as new." Will this be sufficient? Any other comments will be
appreciated.

I would be cautious of assuming the 405 would be an appropriate power amp
for the Magneplanar speakers.

IIRC Magneplanar speakers have a general reputation for having low
impedances. I've just looked at some reviews of the 1.6QR and they seem to
report that it has a 'typical' resistance of 4 Ohms.

You do not say what version of the 405 you have, nor if the overhaul has
actually brought it up to the performance of 'late' versions, or to its
orginal state. However the early version of the 405 had quite 'strict'
current limiting.

The (potential) problem is that if the amp can only supply the order of 5
Amps, then that will only give about 20V across a 4 Ohm load. i.e. about
half what the 405 can supply into higher impedance loads. The amp can
probably do better than 5 Amps, but you may find the peak levels you can
get are current limited.

If you only listen at modest or low sound levels and are not in a large
room, the above may not matter at all as you may not be wishing to produce
high levels, and hence any current limitations of the 405 may not matter in
your case.

You are unlikely to get this problem with LS3/5A's as they have a
relatively high impedance in most of their incarnations. :-)

What amp did the shop use when demo-ing the Magneplanar speakers?

As with Electrostatics, the Magneplanars tend to interact with the room
acoustic in a different way to conventional 'cone-and-box' speakers. Hence
this is something else you may need to consider.

Thus the suitability may depend on your taste in music, the levels you like
to listen to, and the listening room. Hence it is hard to be more specific
in answering your questions without more info.

Will the shop either let you try the speakers before you buy, and/or
perhaps let you take the 34/405 into the shop and use them there to drive
the speakers?

FWIW I personally prefer 'panel' speakers - in my case the Quad ESL's - to
conventional types. Hence I am not trying to discourage you from choosing
the Magneplanar speakers. But I would be wary of using a 405 to drive them.

Slainte,

Jim


I used to have a pair of SMGb Maggies, and these didn't like being
driven from a 405 at all. Surprisingly the MG2.5Rs I used later were
OK, but the amp gave current limiting problems if turned up too much.

The 1.6 Maggies aren't all that big, and you may find that you've got an
octave of bass missing that you might have been expecting, ( though it
will be better than the LS3/5s). Keep in mind that Dipoles need to be
kept away from a rear reflecting wall to stop a 'comb filter' effect.
--
Chris Morriss

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

Thanks for your helpful comments Jim.
I spent a good deal of time on the computer last night researching my Quad
405 and have quickly come to the conclusion that it is not a suitable amp
for the Magneplanar speakers. I will investigate updating my early (serial
number 29,081) model to later spec. after the holidays. I have added my
responses to you below:


I would be cautious of assuming the 405 would be an appropriate power amp
for the Magneplanar speakers.

IIRC Magneplanar speakers have a general reputation for having low
impedances. I've just looked at some reviews of the 1.6QR and they seem to
report that it has a 'typical' resistance of 4 Ohms.

Yes, quoted impedance is 4 ohms - My LS3/5a's are 15 ohm models.


You do not say what version of the 405 you have,

See above.


What amp did the shop use when demo-ing the Magneplanar speakers?

They used a very pretty Perreaux integrated amp costing, I think he said,
NZ$ 8000 odd (GBP 3,000) more than my ears warrant spending!


Thus the suitability may depend on your taste in music, the levels you
like
to listen to, and the listening room. Hence it is hard to be more specific
in answering your questions without more info.

My tastes are mainly classical from Baroque to Romantic. I listen to a lot
of solo violin - my children are studying violin and piano and I like to
listen to what I hope they will one day be capable of performing themselves!
My listening room is approx. 25ft x 15ft with an A frame ceiling walls are
plasterboard and floor is wood covered with fitted carpet.


Will the shop either let you try the speakers before you buy, and/or
perhaps let you take the 34/405 into the shop and use them there to drive
the speakers?

I didn't ask but in view of my research last night I would not buy before
trying. However I think the question is becoming academic now since I have
come to accept that the Magneplanar speakers require another amp.

FWIW I personally prefer 'panel' speakers - in my case the Quad ESL's - to
conventional types. Hence I am not trying to discourage you from choosing
the Magneplanar speakers. But I would be wary of using a 405 to drive
them.

I have always been a fan of Quad. I identify with the line of thought that
what is important is the musical experience of the system and its ability to
play a wide range of sometimes less than technical perfection but wonderful
musical content. In this regard I would mention that perhaps my favourite
hifi test piece is the Solti Mahler 2 on Decca. And while I have the
Mravinsky LPO Tchaikovsky Symphonies 4,5 &6 on DG I get enormous emotional
enjoyment from the Furtwangler Berlin PO 1951 Cairo recording of the 6th.
In New Zealand there is currently available a wide range of wonderful
historic performances on CD at incredible prices for eg. a double disc of
Horowitz playing Scarlatti, Haydn, Chopin, Moussorgsky and Rachmaninov for
NZ$2.99 (GBP 1.10) and a six disc set of Furtwangler recordings for NZ$6.99
(GBP 2.58).
Now although they are quite rare in NZ there are Quad ESL speakers here and
I think for the price of the Magneplanars (NZ$ 4,300) there is a good chance
that I will be able to find a decent pair of ESL 63's and so it is in this
direction that I will now progress.

Regards & happy holidays,

D.
















I

"Chris Morriss" wrote in message

Thanks Chris. See my response to Jim.

D.

dersu wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

Thanks for your helpful comments Jim.
I spent a good deal of time on the computer last night researching my Quad
405 and have quickly come to the conclusion that it is not a suitable amp
for the Magneplanar speakers. I will investigate updating my early (serial
number 29,081) model to later spec. after the holidays. I have added my
responses to you below:

Just one other (slightly nearer to home) option if you are up to a bit
of DIY.

http://www.eraudio.com.au/Kits/kits.html

I have heard a pair of the ESL III, and they were quite stunning, very
directional, but sitting down in the sweet spot was like turning the
corner into the studio, very tempting if my woodworking skills were better.

--
Nick

A couple of things about Maggies - they were my system speakers for a few
years. First, you don't need mega power amps unless you have a big room - I
used to listen to mine in a smallish room with a 10wpc valve amp (Leak Stereo
20). People will tell you 100 watts, 200 watts etc - that's 'american talk' -
people with huge rooms. Second, people will tell you solid state only, but many
of us were happy with valves, and so might you be if that's your taste. For a
valve amp, the Maggies were quite easy to drive - I used the 4 ohms setting on
my OPT. good luck - Andy

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

In article , Andy Evans
wrote:
A couple of things about Maggies - they were my system speakers for a
few years. First, you don't need mega power amps unless you have a big
room - I used to listen to mine in a smallish room with a 10wpc valve
amp (Leak Stereo 20). People will tell you 100 watts, 200 watts etc -
that's 'american talk' - people with huge rooms. Second, people will
tell you solid state only, but many of us were happy with valves, and so
might you be if that's your taste. For a valve amp, the Maggies were
quite easy to drive - I used the 4 ohms setting on my OPT. good luck -
Andy

I would want to know the impedance-frequency properties of the 'Maggies' to
be sure. However I'd agree with the above in general terms *provided* the
user is in a situation (e.g. small room as Andy says) where the required
mean and peak output sound levels are modest, *and* the amp is chosen to
be appropriate for the specific situation/use.

The first snag is the 'logarithmic' nature of perception of sound level.
Ignoring factors like current limiting, a 200W amp would nominally give
levels only 6dB above a 50W amp. i.e. about the same as two or three
steps on the volume control of the 34 preamp. For some people the
405 might be fine with the magneplanars, but for others it would not,
and this is a matter of personal taste, in terms of kind of music,
how loud the listener wants it to be, as well as the size of the room.

The second snag is that some amps may share a nominal power rating, but
differ a great deal in how much current they can deliver into low
impedance loads.

Take, as an example, the literal implications of the '405' (40V 5A). This
implies if taken literally that into a 4 Ohm load you can only get 4x5 =
20V. i.e. 6dB down on what the same amp can deliver into a high impedance
speaker. This is an area where the 'Mk2' version is at an advantage as it
does not current limit to the same extent. Yet the nominal power ratings of
the early and later 405's are the same.

I would, therefore, be cautious of completely dismissing what some people say
as 'American talk' w.r.t. driving magneplanar speakers. The problem here is
not the power rating as such. It is in knowing the specifics of the actual
use, and the limits of the particular amp.

This is why magazines like HFN tend to state the peak current a power amp
can deliver when they list review results. With low impedance speakers this
may matter for loud musical peaks.

For the 405 to be able to deliver 40V into a 4 Ohm load, it would have to
provide 10A. (i.e. a power of 400W). This may simply not be needed in
your case, though, as you may not actually ever play music at the levels
this would provide.

I can't recall details, but my impression is that some magneplanar speakers
have impedances that fall below 4 Ohms, so may be 'difficult' loads for
some power amps.

I would, however, personally agree with the view that 'planar' speakers
like these and ESL's are capable of superb results, and may be well worth
the extra effort of finding a suitable amp, and the 'inconvenience' of the
speaker placement requirements.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , dersu wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...




What amp did the shop use when demo-ing the Magneplanar speakers?

They used a very pretty Perreaux integrated amp costing, I think he
said, NZ$ 8000 odd (GBP 3,000) more than my ears warrant spending!

Don't know the Perreaux. However I'd hope you could find cheaper amps that
can deliver the required currents, etc. :-)


Thus the suitability may depend on your taste in music, the levels you
like to listen to, and the listening room. Hence it is hard to be
more specific in answering your questions without more info.

My tastes are mainly classical from Baroque to Romantic. I listen to a
lot of solo violin - my children are studying violin and piano and I
like to listen to what I hope they will one day be capable of
performing themselves! My listening room is approx. 25ft x 15ft with
an A frame ceiling walls are plasterboard and floor is wood covered
with fitted carpet.

Given what you say about your taste in music I can see why speakers like
the magnaplanars or ESLs would be attractive for you. :-)

I think for the price of the Magneplanars (NZ$ 4,300) there is a good
chance that I will be able to find a decent pair of ESL 63's and so it
is in this direction that I will now progress.

FWIW I am a fan of the ESL63's. I bought a pair the year they appeared, and
still have them - although I recently changed to using a pair of 988's for
most of my listening. In the UK I think you can get secondhand 63's for
around 1000 UKP a pair. No idea how that would 'translate' to NZ, though.

Although the ESL57 was not an easy load, the 63's (particularly late
versions) are somewhat easier on the amp. So, for example, I'd expect the
405 to give decent results with the 63's - although the 'late version' of
the 405 is still probably preferrable here. I use power amps that can
cheerfully deliver over 30A, but I'm sure I never need anything like that
with 63's or 988's. :-)

Happy Christmas and Hogmanay!

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html