"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"andy" wrote in message
oups.com...
As yet another owner of a Pioneer DV-575A I am curious about what the
above modifications will achieve and why?

**Output muting, via the use of BJTs has always been a sonic disaster,
IME. A relay contributes no distortion, whilst in the O/C mode. The output
IC used, whilst adequate, is hardly state of the art. Output ICs in 1983
(ie: First generation) CD players were superior. In Philips derived
machines, that usually meant an NE5532/5534 chip. A fine chip, back then
and still a fine chip today. There are two, 220 Ohm resistors in series
with each O/P IC. These should be shorted (after replacing the ICs with a
more suitable device, of course). A 440 Ohm output impedance is pitifully
high. Additionally, it would be nice to organise a spilt rail power
supply, for the output IC. At present, it is powered by a single rail
supply, thus a large electrolytic coupling cap is required.

I suggest anyone who is interested, to compare the 575A to a decent,
contemporary CD (only) player, such as a Rotel RCD951 and report on any
differences.



All well and good Trevor, but like Andy says: 'why'...???

Don't see the point of buying a perfectly adequate budget player in the
first place and then spending *more* money on it.....???

Keith G wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"andy" wrote in message
groups.com...

As yet another owner of a Pioneer DV-575A I am curious about what the
above modifications will achieve and why?

**Output muting, via the use of BJTs has always been a sonic disaster,
IME. A relay contributes no distortion, whilst in the O/C mode. The output
IC used, whilst adequate, is hardly state of the art. Output ICs in 1983
(ie: First generation) CD players were superior. In Philips derived
machines, that usually meant an NE5532/5534 chip. A fine chip, back then
and still a fine chip today. There are two, 220 Ohm resistors in series
with each O/P IC. These should be shorted (after replacing the ICs with a
more suitable device, of course). A 440 Ohm output impedance is pitifully
high. Additionally, it would be nice to organise a spilt rail power
supply, for the output IC. At present, it is powered by a single rail
supply, thus a large electrolytic coupling cap is required.

I suggest anyone who is interested, to compare the 575A to a decent,
contemporary CD (only) player, such as a Rotel RCD951 and report on any
differences.




All well and good Trevor, but like Andy says: 'why'...???

Don't see the point of buying a perfectly adequate budget player in the
first place and then spending *more* money on it.....???


All looks quite bizarre to me ... but ... for anyone interested HFW (Jan
2005, pp.34-7) has some details: change output capacitors to Black Gate
- "really helped the Pioneer achieve its true potential"; overblown bass
"tamed"; high frequency "astounding"; "life-like ... sound blossomed"
etc. - you get the picture.
:-)
Rob

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:35:02 +0100, Rob
wrote:

All looks quite bizarre to me ... but ... for anyone interested HFW (Jan
2005, pp.34-7) has some details: change output capacitors to Black Gate
- "really helped the Pioneer achieve its true potential"; overblown bass
"tamed"; high frequency "astounding"; "life-like ... sound blossomed"
etc. - you get the picture.

Indeed we do - more 'audiophile' tweaks with no actual *evidence* that
they make any audible difference whatever!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Keith G wrote:


All well and good Trevor, but like Andy says: 'why'...???

Don't see the point of buying a perfectly adequate budget player in the
first place and then spending *more* money on it.....???


No, I just don't see the sense in that at all, if it makes it perform
better then why not spend more money on it?

I think even the most sceptical here would agree that cheap electrolytic
caps leave a lot to be desired, and replacing them in the output stage
with caps that have measurably better performance.

Using that logic Keith, do you want to swap the cerafine in your amp for
a standard RS cap? I will even offer you a tenner for your trouble
swaping it over.

I have heard a standard 575 and one with the sort of mods Trevor has
mentioned and I would suggest its £40 well spent.

--
Nick

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


All well and good Trevor, but like Andy says: 'why'...???

Don't see the point of buying a perfectly adequate budget player in the
first place and then spending *more* money on it.....???


No, I just don't see the sense in that at all, if it makes it perform
better then why not spend more money on it?


OK, how about 'If you wanted something that sounded *better*, why buy it in
the first place?' then...??? :-)



I think even the most sceptical here would agree that cheap electrolytic
caps leave a lot to be desired, and replacing them in the output stage
with caps that have measurably better performance.


Only if the cheap caps are poor quality and don't do the job properly. I'm
not sure that, even building down to a budget, Pioneer would actually use
*crappy* caps....???


Using that logic Keith, do you want to swap the cerafine in your amp for a
standard RS cap? I will even offer you a tenner for your trouble swaping
it over.


A *whole* tenner? (To myself? - I wouldn't have to share it with anybody?
:-)

Of course the question is would a 'standard' cap really make any
difference??



I have heard a standard 575 and one with the sort of mods Trevor has
mentioned and I would suggest its £40 well spent.


Well, OK. AFAIAC the jury's out on 'audiophile upgrades' - I've not been in
a position to make comparisons myself so I just don't know. If you say those
mods made a positive difference then that's good enough for me. Whether I
could tell myself though, I've no idea...

I suppose it comes down to the money - if you *can* make one sound 'better'
for that little money I guess it would be worth the effort and expense. My
argument is that they sound plenty good enough to me straight out of the
box. Asitappens, I don't use mine (ours) for music anyway- we use it to
watch movies and it's excellent!! The sound is brilliant, picture quality is
superb (again, 'plenty good enough') and it does well with 'iffy' discs!!

What more could you want for so little money (in real terms)...???

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"andy" wrote in message
oups.com...
As yet another owner of a Pioneer DV-575A I am curious about what the
above modifications will achieve and why?

**Output muting, via the use of BJTs has always been a sonic disaster,
IME. A relay contributes no distortion, whilst in the O/C mode.

A BJT contributes no significant distortion when switched off.

The output
IC used, whilst adequate, is hardly state of the art.

You don't need state of the art ICs for a signal with a guaranteed max
output of a couple of volts, and a guaranteed max bandwidth of 22kHz.
The Pioneer of course has better opamps than this, as it can happily
cope with 100kHz bandwidth for 24/192 - at 0.002% THD - and over six
channels, so plain old CD audio isn't going to be a problem.

Output ICs in 1983
(ie: First generation) CD players were superior.

Utter nonsense!

In Philips derived
machines, that usually meant an NE5532/5534 chip. A fine chip, back then
and still a fine chip today.

Indeed so, as are the perfectly adequate modern chips inside the
Pioneer, which have gain-bandwidth and distortion levels that a 5534
can only dream of!

There are two, 220 Ohm resistors in series
with each O/P IC. These should be shorted (after replacing the ICs with a
more suitable device, of course). A 440 Ohm output impedance is pitifully
high.

No higher than that of many well-regarded ultra-expensive passive
'preamps', and not a problem in most systems anyway. At worst, you
might get a treble rolloff as low as 100kHz in a system with long,
high-capacitance cabling. Hardly a disaster.........................

Additionally, it would be nice to organise a spilt rail power
supply, for the output IC. At present, it is powered by a single rail
supply, thus a large electrolytic coupling cap is required.

So what? Can you hear the difference?

I suggest anyone who is interested, to compare the 575A to a decent,
contemporary CD (only) player, such as a Rotel RCD951 and report on any
differences.

I already compared it to an *excellent* modern CD player, arguably the
very best, and found no audible differences.

Patrick, you're advocating expensive 'audiophile' tweaks of no proven
*audible* worth for a low-cost universal player. That is just plain
*bad* engineering - you should be ashamed of yourself! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

I already compared it to an *excellent* modern CD player, arguably the
very best, and found no audible differences.

So what's the difference between the Pioneer DV-575, DV-575A and
the DV-575A-S? Do they all play SACD and DVDA?

--
Eiron.

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:15:46 +0100, Eiron wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

I already compared it to an *excellent* modern CD player, arguably the
very best, and found no audible differences.

So what's the difference between the Pioneer DV-575, DV-575A and
the DV-575A-S? Do they all play SACD and DVDA?

Colour, mostly, and yes.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"andy" wrote in message
oups.com...
As yet another owner of a Pioneer DV-575A I am curious about what the
above modifications will achieve and why?

**Output muting, via the use of BJTs has always been a sonic disaster,
IME. A relay contributes no distortion, whilst in the O/C mode. The
output IC used, whilst adequate, is hardly state of the art. Output ICs
in 1983 (ie: First generation) CD players were superior. In Philips
derived machines, that usually meant an NE5532/5534 chip. A fine chip,
back then and still a fine chip today. There are two, 220 Ohm resistors
in series with each O/P IC. These should be shorted (after replacing the
ICs with a more suitable device, of course). A 440 Ohm output impedance
is pitifully high. Additionally, it would be nice to organise a spilt
rail power supply, for the output IC. At present, it is powered by a
single rail supply, thus a large electrolytic coupling cap is required.

I suggest anyone who is interested, to compare the 575A to a decent,
contemporary CD (only) player, such as a Rotel RCD951 and report on any
differences.



All well and good Trevor, but like Andy says: 'why'...???

**Because Lord Pinkerton could do the job for almost no cost. The benefits
are tangible. For those not capable of doing the job, I feel it is probably
a toss-up as to if the value is there.


Don't see the point of buying a perfectly adequate budget player in the
first place and then spending *more* money on it.....???

**Me either. Still, I modded my own budget players. The cost was a little
time and some cheap chips and some relays I had lying around. The results
were worthwhile, in two out of the three instances. The bedroom system is
really too crappy to bother modding any player. The other rooms have quite
decent systems.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 00:04:38 GMT, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"andy" wrote in message
oups.com...
As yet another owner of a Pioneer DV-575A I am curious about what the
above modifications will achieve and why?

**Output muting, via the use of BJTs has always been a sonic disaster,
IME. A relay contributes no distortion, whilst in the O/C mode. The
output IC used, whilst adequate, is hardly state of the art. Output ICs
in 1983 (ie: First generation) CD players were superior. In Philips
derived machines, that usually meant an NE5532/5534 chip. A fine chip,
back then and still a fine chip today. There are two, 220 Ohm resistors
in series with each O/P IC. These should be shorted (after replacing the
ICs with a more suitable device, of course). A 440 Ohm output impedance
is pitifully high. Additionally, it would be nice to organise a spilt
rail power supply, for the output IC. At present, it is powered by a
single rail supply, thus a large electrolytic coupling cap is required.

I suggest anyone who is interested, to compare the 575A to a decent,
contemporary CD (only) player, such as a Rotel RCD951 and report on any
differences.

All well and good Trevor, but like Andy says: 'why'...???

**Because Lord Pinkerton could do the job for almost no cost. The benefits
are tangible. For those not capable of doing the job, I feel it is probably
a toss-up as to if the value is there.

You claim that the benefits are tangible, I suggest that they are
almost certainly only theoretical.

Don't see the point of buying a perfectly adequate budget player in the
first place and then spending *more* money on it.....???

**Me either. Still, I modded my own budget players. The cost was a little
time and some cheap chips and some relays I had lying around. The results
were worthwhile, in two out of the three instances. The bedroom system is
really too crappy to bother modding any player. The other rooms have quite
decent systems.

You did of course do this with two identical players, and compared
'before and after' sound quality?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering