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Hy!
I'm planning to buy receiver + floorstanding loudspeakers for hi-fi (not home cinema) purpose. I would mostly listen to mp3's (all kinds) and radio. I founded these receivers and loudspeakers: Receivers: Kenwood KRF-V4550 DS Kenwood KRF-V7070D Yamaha V450 Titan Yamaha V550 Titan Yamaha RXV 457 Denon 1705 Harman Kardon 3380 Loudspeakers: Jamo E570 Jamo E660 Jamo HCS6000 - for home cinema Celestion F20 Celestion F30 JBL E30 Infinity Primus 250 Vtrek Fenglei No2 - for home cinema Dali 6 Dali Blue 3003 Dali Blue 5005 What would you reccomend? What sound card to buy (in range up to 80$)? I prefer quality of sound over technical possibilities. Thank you for your answers! |
Purchase question
In article , "Uzmi Novce I Bjezi!"
wrote: I'm planning to buy receiver + floorstanding loudspeakers for hi-fi (not home cinema) purpose. I would mostly listen to mp3's (all kinds) and radio. I prefer quality of sound over technical possibilities. If you're listening to MP3's and radio, you have no concept of quality sound. Any radio shack junk will suit. Now scram! Bob |
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Purchase question
Uzmi Novce I Bjezi! wrote:
Hy! I'm planning to buy receiver + floorstanding loudspeakers for hi-fi (not home cinema) purpose. I would mostly listen to mp3's (all kinds) and radio. I founded these receivers and loudspeakers: Receivers: snip list of receivers If it's not home cinema you're after I'd look at a separate amp and tuner. While the receivers are good value they'll include some stuff you never use, and you may get better quality using, say, a Cambridge amp and Denon tuner. Having said this there are plenty of old cheap receivers on ebay - I bought one for about 50USD and it's fine. Buyer beware and all that. Loudspeakers: snip list of speakers Not familiar with any of that lot - try and listen to a range if you can, and don't rely on reviews. It all depends on your room and taste. What would you reccomend? Dynaudio speakers, and possibly Mission for a cheaper quick fix. I'd avoid budget floor standing speakers. What sound card to buy (in range up to 80$)? I think you're looking at one of Creative's offerings for that money - seem fine to me with mp3s. I'd go for an internal card to avoid the tangle of wires. I prefer quality of sound over technical possibilities. Well you should be thinking about a turntable and a valve amplifier then :-) Thank you for your answers! Pleasure, best of luck. Rob |
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Yeah, I'd like to see the results versus a TDA2030 in a double-blind test.
Martin -- M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890 Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie |
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Uzmi Novce I Bjezi! wrote: What's your budget and what country do you live in? |
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"Bill Riel" wrote in message t... In article ws.com, says... In article , "Uzmi Novce I Bjezi!" wrote: I'm planning to buy receiver + floorstanding loudspeakers for hi-fi (not home cinema) purpose. I would mostly listen to mp3's (all kinds) and radio. I prefer quality of sound over technical possibilities. If you're listening to MP3's and radio, you have no concept of quality sound. Disagree - at least *I* can't tell high bitrate, LAME encoded MP3's from original source. I doubt many people (if any) could. Any radio shack junk will suit. Now scram! Wow! What a friendly welcome! It was a forgery. |
Purchase question
In rec.audio.opinion Uzmi Novce I Bjezi! wrote:
I'm planning to buy receiver + floorstanding loudspeakers for hi-fi (not home cinema) purpose. Consider also a pair of bookshelf speakers plus a subwoofer. Or a pair of floorstanding speakers plus a subwoofer. Some of your choices below need it (2-way floorstand speakers). I would mostly listen to mp3's (all kinds) and radio. I founded these receivers and loudspeakers: Receivers: Kenwood KRF-V4550 DS Kenwood KRF-V7070D I am not familiar with these. Yamaha V450 Titan Yamaha V550 Titan Yamaha RXV 457 The Yamaha RX-V457 is the 2005 model which replaces the RX-V450. The RX-V550 (now RX-V557) has a bit more features (I don't remember which). You can go to the Yamaha web page http://yamaha-hifi.de/cat1.php?&idcat1=1&lang=e and following the links, compare two or more products. For instance: http://www.yamaha-online.de/compare.php?idprod=1221 I suggest that you download the operating manuals to check on the receivers really work, how many inputs, etc.. Note, any receiver on this price range should be good enough (signal to noise ratio around 100dB, flat frequency response from 20 Hz-20 kHz, distorsion around 0,06% - 0,08%) that you won't notice differences in sound quality among them. BTW, Yamaha makes subwoofers like the YST-SW315: http://yamaha-hifi.de/products.php?l...&i dprod=1097 or YST-SW515 (new model): http://yamaha-hifi.de/products.php?l...&i dprod=1204 I think these subwoofers have a good price/quality ratio. Compare the price of 25 cm subwoofers from the other manufacturers. Denon 1705 Harman Kardon 3380 Also good brands. Loudspeakers: Jamo E570 http://www.jamo.com/Default.asp?ID=3...ductID=166 47 Jamo E660 http://www.jamo.com/Default.asp?ID=3...ductID=168 50 Frequency Range 45Hz - 20kHz Unlike other speakers below, these are real 3-way speakers so I thought you might not need a subwoofer, but then I noticed that its woofers are no bigger than the 2-way designs. Curious. Jamo HCS6000 - for home cinema Celestion F20 http://www.celestion.com/products/fseries/f20.html This is a two-way speaker quite similar to the bookshelf F15. So it really should be combined with a subwoofer, because it lacks a bit of low bass: Frequency Range ( ±2dB ) 60 Hz - 20 kHz A friend of mine has these speakers but combined with the Celestion S80 subwoofer: http://www.celestion.com/products/fseries/s80.html. He is happy with them. Celestion F30 http://www.celestion.com/products/fseries/f30.html This is still a two-way speaker, although it has two bass drivers (which only gain 5 Hz compared with the F20). So it also should be combined with a subwoofer. Frequency Range ( ±2dB ) 55 Hz - 20 kHz Type 3 way / bass reflex Tweeter Titanium dome 19 mm (3/4") Bass/ Midrange 2 x 130 mm (5 1/4") PP-coated driver Frequency Range ( ±2dB ) 55 Hz - 20 kHz Crossover frequency 3.5 kHz Power handling 120 Watts Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 90 db Impedance 8 Ohm Magnetic Shielding Yes Weight 13 kg (28.6 lbs) Dimensions (H x W x D) 900 x 198 x 272 mm 35.4 x 7.8 x 10.7" JBL E30 Infinity Primus 250 This one ? PRIMUS II 250 http://international.infinitysystems...nguage=ENGLISH Recommended Amplifier Power 10 - 150 watts Frequency Response 49Hz - 20kHz * Sensitivity (2,83 V @ 1m) 92dB Nominal Impedance 8 ohms Crossover Frequency 2500Hz; 24dB/Octave Low-Frequency Driver Dual 130mm CMMD, magnetically shielded High-Frequency Driver 19mm CMMD, magnetically shielded Dimensions (H x W x D) 900 x 187 x 300 mm Weight 16kg * The web page says 19Hz - 20kHz, and I found that strange, since this speaker has a construction similar to the Celestion F30 (2x 130mm woofer, similar overall dimensions) which only goes to 55Hz. But the PDF: http://international.infinitysystems...musII_Euro.pdf has 49Hz - 20kHz, so the "19Hz" in the web page must be a typo. As with the Celestion, I recommend that you combine it with a subwoofer. Vtrek Fenglei No2 - for home cinema Dali 6 Dali Blue 3003 http://www.dali.dk/Page.asp?MMID=1&M...6&PID=109#tech Dali Blue 5005 http://www.dali.dk/Page.asp?MMID=1&M...6&PID=110#tech These 2 Dali speakers seem similar to the Celestion and Infinity (twin woofers), but Dali claims more low-end bass: 3003: Frequency Response, ±3dB 42 Hz - 24 kHz 5005: Frequency Response, ±3dB 37 Hz - 25 kHz What sound card to buy (in range up to 80$)? Something with a digital output. So the Digital to Analogic conversion will be done in the receiver, and the sound quality of the card will be more or less irrelevant. I prefer quality of sound over technical possibilities. Note that both for the receivers and reasonable sound cards the differences should be inaudible. -- http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/ ..pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC) Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94 |
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Joseph Oberlander said:
Uzmi Novce I Bjezi! wrote: What's your budget and what country do you live in? Hungary, can't you tell? ;-) -- "Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes." - Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005 |
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"Bobo Morein" wrote in message rdnews.com... In article , "Uzmi Novce I Bjezi!" wrote: I'm planning to buy receiver + floorstanding loudspeakers for hi-fi (not home cinema) purpose. I would mostly listen to mp3's (all kinds) and radio. I prefer quality of sound over technical possibilities. If you're listening to MP3's and radio, you have no concept of quality sound. Any radio shack junk will suit. Now scram! Bob Well said Bob,i wouldn't even advise him to go to radio shack,just stick to his ****ty PC speakers. |
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"Bill Riel" wrote in message t... In article , says... It was a forgery. Ugh - I hope that's not common around here :-( -- Bill It's extremely common. rec.audio.opinion is extremely rambunctious. I post from giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com |
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"Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro" wrote in message ... " Celestion F30 http://www.celestion.com/products/fseries/f30.html This is still a two-way speaker, although it has two bass drivers (which only gain 5 Hz compared with the F20). So it also should be combined with a subwoofer. Frequency Range ( ±2dB ) 55 Hz - 20 kHz" I have a pair of F30s; I also have the Celestion S80 powered subwoofer. Unless you are listening at very high sound levels, you won't need the subwoofer for music with the F30s, just boost the bass a little to compensate for the speakers' rolloff. With the subwoofer level set to sound OK on DVDs, I find its better to use some bass cut for listening to quite a lot of music. Tim |
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"Tim Martin" wrote in message ... "Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro" wrote in message ... " Celestion F30 http://www.celestion.com/products/fseries/f30.html This is still a two-way speaker, although it has two bass drivers (which only gain 5 Hz compared with the F20). So it also should be combined with a subwoofer. Frequency Range ( ±2dB ) 55 Hz - 20 kHz" I have a pair of F30s; I also have the Celestion S80 powered subwoofer. Unless you are listening at very high sound levels, you won't need the subwoofer for music with the F30s, just boost the bass a little to compensate for the speakers' rolloff. With the subwoofer level set to sound OK on DVDs, I find its better to use some bass cut for listening to quite a lot of music. Tim Depends on the room. My speakers are 55hz too, and go down plenty low enough in a smaller room with no sub. |
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Anyway, to the Original Poster - That's quite a list, and I haven't
listened to anything on it. I do have some familiarity with some Yamaha and Denon receivers and I've found them to be fine - in general I'd recommend that you go for a receiver with lots of power. 100 wpc should be just fine. I bought Dali Concept 6. I'm very satisfied with them. For speakers, you are going to have to listen to them yourself and see what you like. I'd personally put as much of your budget to speakers as you can afford. At the lower price range, I would recommend looking into Paradigm, Axiom, NHT. For a bit more money PSB, B&W are good brands to look into. But, it's your system and you are the one who has to like it - do some listening first. Thanks. I already ordered Denon DRA-455 receiver. Now I'm looking for the right sound card. |
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"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message .net... Uzmi Novce I Bjezi! wrote: What's your budget and what country do you live in? Croatia, and list was made based on my budget and availability of audio components. Unfortunatelly, here is all audio equipment at least 50% more expensive then prices on internet. |
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Anyway, to the Original Poster - That's quite a list, and I haven't
listened to anything on it. I do have some familiarity with some Yamaha and Denon receivers and I've found them to be fine - in general I'd recommend that you go for a receiver with lots of power. 100 wpc should be just fine. I will probably order Denon AVR455 receiver. It is currently best buy here in Croatia for my budget. For speakers, you are going to have to listen to them yourself and see what you like. I'd personally put as much of your budget to speakers as you can afford. At the lower price range, I would recommend looking into Paradigm, Axiom, NHT. For a bit more money PSB, B&W are good brands to look into. But, it's your system and you are the one who has to like it - do some listening first. I bought Dali Concept 6. I'm very satisfied with them.(for now I just connected them to my old hi-fi) Thanks. Now I'm looking for the right sound card. |
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I prefer quality of sound over technical possibilities. Well you should be thinking about a turntable and a valve amplifier then :-) Unfortunately, too much money for me ;-) |
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"Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro" wrote in message ... /cut Wow, that was really much :-) What is the difference between analogue receivers (Denon DRA455 and Harman Kardon 3380) and digital receivers (all others in the same range of price, for instance Yamaha RXV457) in quality of sound? Since I will mostly listen to my mp3 collection is it better to buy sound card with digital output and wire it directly into digital input of some home cinema receiver (which generally has 'worse' sound than analogue receiver) or to wire it into analogue receiver ? Generally, for same price analogue receivers have more quality output than home cinema receivers, but in my case is that so? |
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Thanks. I already ordered Denon DRA-455 receiver.
But I still can cancel it in 3 days, so if someone has something against speak now ;-) |
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In article ,
"Uzmi Novce I Bjezi!" wrote: Thanks. I already ordered Denon DRA-455 receiver. But I still can cancel it in 3 days, so if someone has something against speak now ;-) I think that will be fine - I have a Denon DRA-395, which I think is the same unit except that the 395 has a bit more power. I don't know much about sound cards though... -- Bill |
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Uzmi Novce I Bjezi! wrote: "Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message .net... Uzmi Novce I Bjezi! wrote: What's your budget and what country do you live in? Croatia, and list was made based on my budget and availability of audio components. Unfortunatelly, here is all audio equipment at least 50% more expensive then prices on internet. The truth is that most amplifiers will be fine. They all put out 50-100wpc into 8ohm speakers, more or less the same, so consider the least feature-laden model for the money.(though one that still does a good job) Onkyo and Denon and Yamaha are fine choices - most of the differences are small and have more to do with extra channels and processing modes. The area to spend the most money and time is the speakers. I personally like Tannoy as they are easy to find in Europe and tend to sound nice. Very good budget models. If you can find a set of Mercury or MercuryX(MX) speakers used, These will be as good as any of the others you listed for quite a decent price. |
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Uzmi Novce I Bjezi! wrote: "Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro" wrote in message ... /cut Wow, that was really much :-) What is the difference between analogue receivers (Denon DRA455 and Harman Kardon 3380) and digital receivers (all others in the same range of price, for instance Yamaha RXV457) in quality of sound? Very very little unless you have difficult or very large speakers. Moest people find even 10watts per channel to be painffully loud(over 100db per speaker in some cases), so unless you have a difficult speaker or a party, you will never run any of them loud enough to have the differences become apparent. OTOH, this is a good thing - just buy any amp of the three and enjoy. Since I will mostly listen to my mp3 collection is it better to buy sound card with digital output and wire it directly into digital input of some home cinema receiver (which generally has 'worse' sound than analogue receiver) or to wire it into analogue receiver ? My suggestion would be to buy a dvd changer for the system(or CD if that's too expensive) that can play MP3s. You can skip a link in the chain that way. Most soundcards are made more for games and sound effects than audio playback, while a dedicated DVD player sounds good because it has to. :) A proper DVD player, btw, will enable you to burn 4.6gig worth of mp3s onto a DVD. A 5 dvd changer like this is effectively an IPod.(but one that you can burn and change at will for a couple of dollars per dvd) |
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Uzmi Novce I Bjezi! wrote: Thanks. I already ordered Denon DRA-455 receiver. But I still can cancel it in 3 days, so if someone has something against speak now ;-) It's a good receiver. Plenty of oomph for driving most speakers (and can run a pair of 4 ohm speakers if it has to, IIRC) |
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"Bill Riel" wrote in message t... In article ws.com, says... In article , "Uzmi Novce I Bjezi!" wrote: I'm planning to buy receiver + floorstanding loudspeakers for hi-fi (not home cinema) purpose. I would mostly listen to mp3's (all kinds) and radio. I prefer quality of sound over technical possibilities. If you're listening to MP3's and radio, you have no concept of quality sound. Disagree - at least *I* can't tell high bitrate, LAME encoded MP3's from original source. I doubt many people (if any) could. I'm with you on that but I don't think we'd manage to convince many people round here! |
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Rich Wilson wrote:
I prefer quality of sound over technical possibilities. If you're listening to MP3's and radio, you have no concept of quality sound. Disagree - at least *I* can't tell high bitrate, LAME encoded MP3's from original source. I doubt many people (if any) could. I'm with you on that but I don't think we'd manage to convince many people round here! Thirded... After some months of consideration and testing, I decided I couldn't tell the difference between CD and 320kbps, LAME-encoded mp3s so moved exclusively to the latter when I set up my media server about 18 months ago |
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Stimpy wrote: Rich Wilson wrote: I prefer quality of sound over technical possibilities. If you're listening to MP3's and radio, you have no concept of quality sound. Disagree - at least *I* can't tell high bitrate, LAME encoded MP3's from original source. I doubt many people (if any) could. I'm with you on that but I don't think we'd manage to convince many people round here! Thirded... After some months of consideration and testing, I decided I couldn't tell the difference between CD and 320kbps, LAME-encoded mp3s so moved exclusively to the latter when I set up my media server about 18 months ago Conbsidering that this is a 50% reduction in bit-rate over the original and compression under the 40-60% range has basically no meaningful lost data(see typical "lossless" compression methods - they all clock in at about 320k MP3 size), plus the fact that CD quality is much better than most peolpe can hear, yes, 320K properly encoded will give you a recreation of the original that a side-by-side test would be hard pressed to reveal. Lower than that, though, it gets plainly audable. Quickly. 128 is very "gritty" sounding, like FM radio, and 192 is maybe like tape but without the wobble and hiss. |
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Thirded... After some months of consideration and testing, I decided I
couldn't tell the difference between CD and 320kbps, LAME-encoded mp3s If you want to test, put some stuff with nice harsh harmonics thru the compression. Sharp-edged waveforms with lots of high harmonics are a good test of just how well the signal can be reconstructed. A co-worker did this with a series of different encoders. Of that set, LAME was one of the best for the pulse waveforms he was testing. Unfortunately I don't remember where he posted the results of that study; I'll try to dig that info out again. |
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Lower than that, though, it gets plainly audable. Quickly.
128 is very "gritty" sounding, like FM radio, 128 sounds pretty good to me much like CD quality and better than FM which only has an audible range of 50-15Khz. But on rare occasions, under the right conditions, and if my old tube tuner could lock in on a good FM station with a clean music source it sounds as good as anything vinyl, tape of CD I have. and 192 is maybe like tape but without the wobble and hiss. On a good reel-to-reel deck you shouldn't hear wobble, wow or flutter - only the damn hiss. |
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I like Turtle Beach soundcards - cheap and clean sound. Creative is pretty
good too but perhaps not as clean although hard to tell without A/B comparison. I have a Harman Kardon receiver only rated at 35wpc but much more powerful and cleaner than my 120wpc receiver. |
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Soundcard?
Get yourself a Lynx. -JC |
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Purchase question
"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message nk.net... Lower than that, though, it gets plainly audable. Quickly. 128 is very "gritty" sounding, like FM radio, and 192 is maybe like tape but without the wobble and hiss. What sort of tape are you using?!! You must have a damn good radio, too. |
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On Thu, 19 May 2005 23:33:53 GMT, "Rich Wilson"
wrote: "Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message ink.net... Lower than that, though, it gets plainly audable. Quickly. 128 is very "gritty" sounding, like FM radio, and 192 is maybe like tape but without the wobble and hiss. What sort of tape are you using?!! You must have a damn good radio, too. Not necessarily. For a couple of decades, live broadcasts on Radio 3 FM were the gold standard for Hi-Fi in the UK. If Joe thinks that FM sounds 'gritty', then either he's got a very *bad* FM radio, or his local broadcasts are crap. The latter is unfortunately the more likely................. :-( -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
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Rich Wilson wrote: "Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message nk.net... Lower than that, though, it gets plainly audable. Quickly. 128 is very "gritty" sounding, like FM radio, and 192 is maybe like tape but without the wobble and hiss. What sort of tape are you using?!! You must have a damn good radio, too. By "gritty" I mean full of little defects and stuff - it's hard to get a clean FM signal these days without some compression or fading and so on(especially if you are in a hilly area) Tape has tons of compression as well, especially if you use any of the noise reduction settings. 128K MP3 is junk. Let's leave it at that, okay? I use very nice metal tape properly bias-adjusted. Other than the background hiss, it's pretty good. Much better than LP or radio if done correctly. (I'd trade hiss for LP's defects anyday) |
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(I'd trade hiss for LP's defects anyday)
I use a software from MAGiX to remove most of the hiss from tapes. It could also remove most of the pops, clicks and scratches from LPs. If I remember correctly dbx is pretty good in removing much of the hiss if you have that feature on your tape deck. The analog laser turntable from Japan would remove all the LP defects that you would have form a conventional turntable. |
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In article t, Joseph
Oberlander writes Rich Wilson wrote: "Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message nk.net... Lower than that, though, it gets plainly audable. Quickly. 128 is very "gritty" sounding, like FM radio, and 192 is maybe like tape but without the wobble and hiss. What sort of tape are you using?!! You must have a damn good radio, too. By "gritty" I mean full of little defects and stuff - it's hard to get a clean FM signal these days without some compression or fading and so on(especially if you are in a hilly area) Take it you are using a "directional" aerial?... -- Tony Sayer |
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"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message k.net... it's hard to get a clean FM signal these days without some compression or fading and so on(especially if you are in a hilly area) That must depend on what country you live in. Tim |
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On Sat, 21 May 2005 08:40:25 GMT, "Tim Martin"
wrote: "Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message nk.net... it's hard to get a clean FM signal these days without some compression or fading and so on(especially if you are in a hilly area) That must depend on what country you live in. Tim I'm not sure that radio is that geopolitically aware. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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