On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:47:14 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Iain M Churches wrote:
"Dave xxxx" wrote in
message
. uk...


http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html


Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973

Which Uni was it at ?

Interesting link - and Arny spelled "Arnie" :-)

It was a placard you were holding up in front of you in a pic.

One of many factual errors.

Interestingly enough, in contrast to Stewart Pinkerton's
claim, Arny
writes:

I didn't write that.

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power
amplifiers are
hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through once,
though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount of
times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on five
amplifiers
within an 8-hour day and claims to have achieved a
positive result
as to their differences"

Just bad writing.

So didn't you say that either?
What *were* you saying?

The discussion looked interesting. Is a full transcript
available?

The entire debate is downloadable as an audio file, so as to avoid
this kind of bickering.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:47:14 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Iain M Churches wrote:
"Dave xxxx" wrote in
message
. uk...


http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html


Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973

Which Uni was it at ?

Interesting link - and Arny spelled "Arnie" :-)

It was a placard you were holding up in front of you in a pic.

One of many factual errors.

Interestingly enough, in contrast to Stewart Pinkerton's
claim, Arny
writes:

I didn't write that.

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power
amplifiers are
hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through once,
though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount of
times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on five
amplifiers
within an 8-hour day and claims to have achieved a
positive result
as to their differences"

Just bad writing.

So didn't you say that either?
What *were* you saying?

The discussion looked interesting. Is a full transcript
available?

The entire debate is downloadable as an audio file, so as to avoid
this kind of bickering.

No bickering SP.
I asked a question and Arny (Arnie) answered it, or
part of it. The transcript contains errors, things which
AK states he did not say. I am particularly interested in
the fact that he states that after prolonged listening it
is easier to detect differences in amplifiers. This is the
opinion shared by many studio personnel with whom
I work.

Try to be a little less unpleasant:-)

Cordially,

Iain

Iain M Churches wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Iain M Churches wrote:
"Dave xxxx" wrote in
message
. uk...



http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html


Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in
1973

Which Uni was it at ?

Interesting link - and Arny spelled "Arnie" :-)

It was a placard you were holding up in front of you in a
pic.

I didn't make the placard.

I wasn't holding it.


One of many factual errors.

Interestingly enough, in contrast to Stewart Pinkerton's
claim, Arny
writes:

I didn't write that.

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power
amplifiers are
hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through once,
though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount
of times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on
five
amplifiers within an 8-hour day and claims to have
achieved a
positive result as to their differences"

Just bad writing.

So didn't you say that either?

Not exactly what was written. Listen to the recording:

http://stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

What *were* you saying?

What I said.

The discussion looked interesting. Is a full transcript
available?

Not as far as I know.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Iain M Churches wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Iain M Churches wrote:
"Dave xxxx" wrote in
message
. uk...



http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html


Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in
1973

Which Uni was it at ?

Interesting link - and Arny spelled "Arnie" :-)

It was a placard you were holding up in front of you in a
pic.

I didn't make the placard.

I wasn't holding it.


One of many factual errors.

Interestingly enough, in contrast to Stewart Pinkerton's
claim, Arny
writes:

I didn't write that.

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power
amplifiers are
hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through once,
though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount
of times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on
five
amplifiers within an 8-hour day and claims to have
achieved a
positive result as to their differences"

Just bad writing.

So didn't you say that either?

Not exactly what was written. Listen to the recording:

http://stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

What *were* you saying?

What I said.

The discussion looked interesting. Is a full transcript
available?

Not as far as I know.

Thanks Arnie. I was especially interested in what you had to say
about "Listener training":- we call it "audio perception".

This is something that varies enormously from person to person.
As mentioned before, many people cannot differentiate between an
oboe and a cor anglais, or an alto and tenor saxophone playing in the
same register.

A couple of years ago, I made a recording of a quintet. We recorded
the string quartet, and then added the clarinet on its own track. At
a subsequent replay session, we pitch shifted the clarinet downwards
1/4 tone over 16 bars, and then back again over the text 16.
It was interesting to see who did and who did not react.

It's a pity that the intelligibility of a discussion made at an
audio seminar was so poor:-)

Thanks again,
Iain

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:46:27 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:


"Dave xxxx" wrote in message
.uk...
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html


Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973

Which Uni was it at ?


--
Dave


Interesting link - and Arny spelled "Arnie" :-)

Interestingly enough, in contrast to Stewart Pinkerton's claim,

More misdirection and inaccuracy from Churches - I simply reported
what Peter Walker used to say.

Arny writes:

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power amplifiers are
hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through once, though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount of times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on five amplifiers
within an 8-hour day and claims to have achieved a positive result
as to their differences"

Not an issue, as *all* amplifiers have readily detectable differences.
*Audible* differences are another matter.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:46:27 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power amplifiers are
hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through once, though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount of times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on five amplifiers
within an 8-hour day and claims to have achieved a positive result
as to their differences"

Not an issue, as *all* amplifiers have readily detectable differences.
*Audible* differences are another matter.
--
Have you suddenly taken on the role of Arny's spokesman?
Is the poor chap not allowed to answer for himself:-)
Manners, SP

Cordially,

Iain

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:37:10 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:46:27 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power amplifiers are
hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through once, though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount of times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on five amplifiers
within an 8-hour day and claims to have achieved a positive result
as to their differences"

Not an issue, as *all* amplifiers have readily detectable differences.
*Audible* differences are another matter.
--
Have you suddenly taken on the role of Arny's spokesman?
Is the poor chap not allowed to answer for himself:-)

He already answered you, before I made that post.

Manners, SP

How would *you* know the difference, you pretentious little creep?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Iain M Churches wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in
message
...

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:46:27 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power
amplifiers are
hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through once,
though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount
of times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on
five
amplifiers within an 8-hour day and claims to have
achieved a
positive result as to their differences"

I obtained this result by effectively passing audio signals
through each power amp 5 times in a row. I specifically said
that after one pass, there were no audible differences.

Readers can listen to these tests for yourself by
downloading files from

http://www.pcabx.com/product/amplifiers/index.htm

Not an issue, as *all* amplifiers have readily detectable
differences. *Audible* differences are another matter.

Agreed.

Have you suddenly taken on the role of Arny's spokesman?

I think he's doing a better than than the chaps at
Stereophile and Enjoy The Music.

Is the poor chap not allowed to answer for himself:-)

Been there done that.

Here's my final answer:

Listen file you get from the download link at


http://stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

or

http://www.stereophile.com/images/do...reatDebate.MP3

"Arny Krueger" wrote


Listen file you get from the download link at


http://stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

or

http://www.stereophile.com/images/do...reatDebate.MP3




Well Arny, I never thought I'd hear *you* on my system!! What a treat! :-)

What TF happened here though:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Outburst.wav


- sounds pretty scary to me!! ?? ;-)