Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973 ?
 

Iain M Churches wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in
message
...

On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:46:27 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power
amplifiers are
hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through once,
though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount
of times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on
five
amplifiers within an 8-hour day and claims to have
achieved a
positive result as to their differences"

I obtained this result by effectively passing audio signals
through each power amp 5 times in a row. I specifically said
that after one pass, there were no audible differences.

Readers can listen to these tests for yourself by
downloading files from

http://www.pcabx.com/product/amplifiers/index.htm

Not an issue, as *all* amplifiers have readily detectable
differences. *Audible* differences are another matter.

Agreed.

Have you suddenly taken on the role of Arny's spokesman?

I think he's doing a better than than the chaps at
Stereophile and Enjoy The Music.

Is the poor chap not allowed to answer for himself:-)

Been there done that.

Here's my final answer:

Listen file you get from the download link at


http://stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

or

http://www.stereophile.com/images/do...reatDebate.MP3

Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973 ?
 

In article ,
Iain M Churches wrote:
This is the opinion shared by many studio personnel with whom I
work.

That's because they are as deluded as you.

It's probably because they are studio personnel, as opposed to postal
operatives with possibly a low level of audio pervception:-)

It's quite well documented that many prefer valve power amps for all
sorts of reasons - soft clipping for example. Doesn't make this
preference *right*. I'd rather have an amp large enough not to clip.

The subject of valve amplifiers has until now, had nothing to do with
this thread. Is there some reason for your suddenly introducing it? :-)

I thought you were referring to those studio personnel you hire your valve
amps to?

Hope so, because I've not seen a valve amp in use in a control room for
about 30 years. Nor would I expect to.

--
*Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973 ?
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Iain M Churches wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Iain M Churches wrote:
"Dave xxxx" wrote in
message
. uk...



http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html


Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in
1973

Which Uni was it at ?

Interesting link - and Arny spelled "Arnie" :-)

It was a placard you were holding up in front of you in a
pic.

I didn't make the placard.

I wasn't holding it.


One of many factual errors.

Interestingly enough, in contrast to Stewart Pinkerton's
claim, Arny
writes:

I didn't write that.

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power
amplifiers are
hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through once,
though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount
of times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on
five
amplifiers within an 8-hour day and claims to have
achieved a
positive result as to their differences"

Just bad writing.

So didn't you say that either?

Not exactly what was written. Listen to the recording:

http://stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

What *were* you saying?

What I said.

The discussion looked interesting. Is a full transcript
available?

Not as far as I know.

Thanks Arnie. I was especially interested in what you had to say
about "Listener training":- we call it "audio perception".

This is something that varies enormously from person to person.
As mentioned before, many people cannot differentiate between an
oboe and a cor anglais, or an alto and tenor saxophone playing in the
same register.

A couple of years ago, I made a recording of a quintet. We recorded
the string quartet, and then added the clarinet on its own track. At
a subsequent replay session, we pitch shifted the clarinet downwards
1/4 tone over 16 bars, and then back again over the text 16.
It was interesting to see who did and who did not react.

It's a pity that the intelligibility of a discussion made at an
audio seminar was so poor:-)

Thanks again,
Iain

Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973 ?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain M Churches wrote:
This is the opinion shared by many studio personnel with whom I
work.

That's because they are as deluded as you.

It's probably because they are studio personnel, as opposed to postal
operatives with possibly a low level of audio pervception:-)

It's quite well documented that many prefer valve power amps for all
sorts of reasons - soft clipping for example. Doesn't make this
preference *right*. I'd rather have an amp large enough not to clip.

The subject of valve amplifiers has until now, had nothing to do with
this thread. Is there some reason for your suddenly introducing it? :-)

I thought you were referring to those studio personnel you hire your valve
amps to?

No, you must learn to differentiate between clients and studio
personnel, Dave:-)) The clients are those that pay, and
get their coffee first.


Hope so, because I've not seen a valve amp in use in a control room for
about 30 years. Nor would I expect to.

You live in London IIRC. There are several studios in
that fair city that have valve monitoring, valve
consoles, and Studer J37 and C37 tape machines

They are of course music studios, not TV facilities.
Do you record music?

Iain

Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973 ?
 

Iain M Churches wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Iain M Churches wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Iain M Churches wrote:
"Dave xxxx" wrote
in message

. uk...




http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html


Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in
1973

Which Uni was it at ?

Interesting link - and Arny spelled "Arnie" :-)

It was a placard you were holding up in front of you in
a
pic.

I didn't make the placard.

I wasn't holding it.


One of many factual errors.

Interestingly enough, in contrast to Stewart
Pinkerton's
claim, Arny
writes:

I didn't write that.

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power
amplifiers
are hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through
once,
though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount
of times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on
five
amplifiers within an 8-hour day and claims to have
achieved a
positive result as to their differences"

Just bad writing.

So didn't you say that either?

Not exactly what was written. Listen to the recording:

http://stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

What *were* you saying?

What I said.

The discussion looked interesting. Is a full transcript
available?

Not as far as I know.

Thanks Arnie. I was especially interested in what you had
to say
about "Listener training":- we call it "audio perception".

This is something that varies enormously from person to
person.
As mentioned before, many people cannot differentiate
between an
oboe and a cor anglais, or an alto and tenor saxophone
playing in the
same register.

A couple of years ago, I made a recording of a quintet.
We recorded
the string quartet, and then added the clarinet on its own
track. At
a subsequent replay session, we pitch shifted the clarinet
downwards
1/4 tone over 16 bars, and then back again over the text
16.
It was interesting to see who did and who did not react.

It's a pity that the intelligibility of a discussion made
at an
audio seminar was so poor:-)

It was John's recording, not mine! ;-)

In my native environment and seminar recording with two
debaters talking back and forth, I would have had 4 mics
minimum, and an N track (N=number of mics) recording that I
mixed down after the fact. There would have been two
wireless, and a minimum of two omnis out in the audience. I
have an enveloping technique that I use to *pop* questions
from the audience out of the noise.

The recording you hear was done with two SM81s hooked to I
think it was a Metric Halo interface, running into a Mac
laptop. Nothing wrong with the electronics or computer, but
IMO the design of the gig was pretty impoverished.

Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973 ?
 

In article ,
Iain M Churches wrote:
I thought you were referring to those studio personnel you hire your
valve amps to?

No, you must learn to differentiate between clients and studio
personnel, Dave:-)) The clients are those that pay, and get their
coffee first.

My clients bring me the coffee, since they are paying me for my time.
Obviously a different world.


Hope so, because I've not seen a valve amp in use in a control room
for about 30 years. Nor would I expect to.

You live in London IIRC. There are several studios in that fair city
that have valve monitoring, valve consoles, and Studer J37 and C37 tape
machines

I'm sure there are. In the same way as some prefer a Marina to a Focus.
Hobby types.

They are of course music studios, not TV facilities. Do you record music?

Patronising git. ;-) The day the BBC use ancient valve technology for the
Proms I'll take notice.

Strange the way the *very* best recorders of classical music - including
Decca - were the first to move into digital recording. Because of the
obvious benefits.

Going retro is simply a fad for minority use. But good luck if it pays
*your* bills. Just don't confuse it with the real world.

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973 ?
 

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:44:57 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Iain M Churches wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Iain M Churches wrote:
"Dave xxxx" wrote in
message
. uk...



http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html


Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in
1973

Which Uni was it at ?

Interesting link - and Arny spelled "Arnie" :-)

It was a placard you were holding up in front of you in a
pic.

I didn't make the placard.

I wasn't holding it.


One of many factual errors.

Interestingly enough, in contrast to Stewart Pinkerton's
claim, Arny
writes:

I didn't write that.

"One of the things Arny discovered is that good power
amplifiers are
hard to distinguish if you pass a signal through once,
though
if you pass a signal through a relatively small amount
of times
the difference are detectable. Arny collected data on
five
amplifiers within an 8-hour day and claims to have
achieved a
positive result as to their differences"

Just bad writing.

So didn't you say that either?

Not exactly what was written. Listen to the recording:

http://stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

What *were* you saying?

What I said.

The discussion looked interesting. Is a full transcript
available?

Not as far as I know.

Thanks Arnie. I was especially interested in what you had to say
about "Listener training":- we call it "audio perception".
This is something that varies enormously from person to person.

Actually, experimental evidence indicates that it varies just a little
from person to person, despite the pretensions of musos..........

As mentioned before, many people cannot differentiate between an
oboe and a cor anglais, or an alto and tenor saxophone playing in the
same register.

And your *evidence* for this is, what exactly? I've never had a
problem with the first pair, although granted the second requires
careful attention - but no more than that.

A couple of years ago, I made a recording of a quintet. We recorded
the string quartet, and then added the clarinet on its own track. At
a subsequent replay session, we pitch shifted the clarinet downwards
1/4 tone over 16 bars, and then back again over the text 16.
It was interesting to see who did and who did not react.

As with so many of your posts, I think we'll need independent
confirmation that this is more than just a flat lie.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973 ?
 

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:18:15 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain M Churches wrote:
This is the
opinion shared by many studio personnel with whom
I work.

That's because they are as deluded as you.

It's probably because they are studio personnel, as
opposed to postal operatives with possibly a low
level of audio pervception:-)

It's quite well documented that many prefer valve power amps for all sorts
of reasons - soft clipping for example. Doesn't make this preference
*right*. I'd rather have an amp large enough not to clip.

The subject of valve amplifiers has until now, had nothing to do
with this thread. Is there some reason for your suddenly
introducing it? :-

Probably it results from your famously being deluded enough to use
coloured valve amps and *horribly* coloured speakers as your
'reference' when location recording.......................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973 ?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain M Churches wrote:

No, you must learn to differentiate between clients and studio
personnel, Dave:-)) The clients are those that pay, and get their
coffee first.

My clients bring me the coffee, since they are paying me for my time.
Obviously a different world.

Obviously:-)


You live in London IIRC. There are several studios in that fair city
that have valve monitoring, valve consoles, and Studer J37 and C37 tape
machines

I'm sure there are. In the same way as some prefer a Marina to a Focus.
Hobby types.

Yes I muist admit they are mainly in private studios, though there is a
place
in West London (Chiswick I think) that has a Leeever Rich E200 master
machine. They have quite a lot of work for commercial labels, I
understand.

They are of course music studios, not TV facilities. Do you record music?

Patronising git.:-)

Not a bit of it. Remember we have mutual aquaintances. I know of your
reputation:-)

The day the BBC use ancient valve technology for the
Proms I'll take notice.

Point taken:-)


Strange the way the *very* best recorders of classical music - including
Decca - were the first to move into digital recording. Because of the
obvious benefits.

We have discussed all this before. Decca were one of the very first,
and they started, with their own in-house recorders at a 20bit.

Going retro is simply a fad for minority use. But good luck if it pays
*your* bills. Just don't confuse it with the real world.

Please don't get the idea that my "retro" tendencies (nice expression
that:-) are a fad. I work much more in the digital domain than with
analogue, so my concept of the real word is quite a clear one.

Iain

Arny proclaims to have a BA in engineering earned in 1973 ?
 

"Signal" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" emitted :

You live in London IIRC. There are several studios in that fair city
that have valve monitoring, valve consoles, and Studer J37 and C37 tape
machines

I'm sure there are. In the same way as some prefer a Marina to a Focus.
Hobby types.

Is Vic Keary still doing his thang? He was swimming against the tide
at Chiswick...

Haven't seen or heard from him for years.
Nice guy, good engineer.

Iain