Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

In article .com, Andy
Evans writes
It's interesting that the examples given so far have been the human
voice - obviously critical for timbre. funnily, the instruments I'm
most sensitive to are the woodwind - clarinet, oboe, bassoon, flute -
the piano and in particular the jazz drumkit. Since I was a jazz
bassist for many years I used to stand right next to the kit for hours
and hours on end, and the sounds of hi-hat, snare, ride and crash
cymbal, toms and bass drum are etched on my brain. When the drumkit is
right, top to bottom, there's not much wrong with the rest of it.


Cymbals in particular are a real test of an audio system.
So are the
toms - they have a particular reverberation which is very distinctive.
Andy


Yep!, DAB MPEG codecs just lurve them!....
--
Tony Sayer

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

In article .com,
Andy
Evans wrote:
It's interesting that the examples given so far have been the human
voice - obviously critical for timbre. funnily, the instruments I'm most
sensitive to are the woodwind - clarinet, oboe, bassoon, flute - the
piano and in particular the jazz drumkit.

I've recently been listening to/watching the pair of DVDs of the Bach 'Well
Tempered Clavier, Books I and II' which is performed by four different
artists, and each prelude and fugue in a different room of the chosen
locations.

This serves as a nice example of just how much the 'sound of a piano'
changes from one room to another and with one mic placement to another.

Thus the resulting timbe is somewhat variable.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

So are the toms - they have a particular reverberation which is very
distinctive. Andy

Yep!, DAB MPEG codecs just lurve them!....

I listened to a transformer volume control once - a beta version - and
it sounded good on a lot of things in the orchestra. It completely fell
down on the tymps - that distinctive twang wasn't there.
--

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

how much the 'sound of a piano' changes from one room to another and
with one mic placement to another. Thus the resulting timbe is somewhat
variable

Yes, it is. That's one reason why I tend to focus on woodwind and
drumkit - the drumkit is usually fairly close mic-ed, and the tone of
the winds tends to come through the orchestra. The enormous
reverberation caused by a grand piano makes it quite unreliable as
regards consistancy of timbre, though obviously it can't be completely
disregarded as a reference. I find vocals rather unreliable as a
reference because the mic and placement tends to be a variable, and of
course each singer is quite different in timbre so there's no
consistency at all about the quality of the voice. Andy

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

In article .com,
Andy
Evans wrote:
how much the 'sound of a piano' changes from one room to another and
with one mic placement to another. Thus the resulting timbe is somewhat
variable

Yes, it is. That's one reason why I tend to focus on woodwind and
drumkit - the drumkit is usually fairly close mic-ed, and the tone of
the winds tends to come through the orchestra.

I don't listen much to music that includes close-miked drumkit, so can't
comment on that. However I also find that the sound of woodwind also
varies. Depends on the make of instrument - size of bore, etc. Also on the
relative mic placement.

I am wary of using woodwind as some speakers may have resonances similar to
(or do not interact with) those of some instruments.

The enormous reverberation caused by a grand piano makes it quite
unreliable as regards consistancy of timbre, though obviously it can't
be completely disregarded as a reference.

I find it very revealing as a test source. Particularly useful for showing
the effects of mic placement, room acoustics, and speaker problems.

I find vocals rather unreliable as a reference because the mic and
placement tends to be a variable, and of course each singer is quite
different in timbre so there's no consistency at all about the quality
of the voice. Andy

It is useful in this context to use recordings/broadcasts from a 'known'
venue. I used to find it very useful when I lived in London to go to BBC
sponsored concerts, and then hear the same items when broadcast at a later
date. I found this very illuminating and caused me to realise how easy it
was to make incorrect assumptions about if a given system/recording was
good or bad as a representation of the actual event.

FWIW I have always found voice and piano quite a telling combination once
you have some idea of the sound when present at the venue, etc.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

On 2 Dec 2005 09:21:23 -0800, "Andy Evans"
wrote:

Whatever any theories about 'absolute fidelity' say or don't say, back
in the real world some things about systems stand out - with some it's
bass, treble or mids, others it's transparency and detail, and so
forth. I'm one of those guys who's always been very sensitive to the
timbre of acoustic instruments, having been a musician for many years,
and this would apply to anyone that regularly hears live instruments in
the studio or concert hall (or kids practising...). By some fortuitous
combination of circumstances my present system has turned out - despite
some glaring flaws - to be quite uncanny in reproducing the timbre of
instruments.
This isn't a question about fidelity in general, it's precisely about
timbre - what systems or componants can you name that have, for you, an
uncannily realistic portrayal of timbre? I'm interested if there's any
pattern to how to achieve this. Andy

Mine, for one:

http://www.lurcher.org/ukra/stewart_p/stewart_p.html

Of course, I would say that! :-)

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

"Andy Evans" wrote


This isn't a question about fidelity in general, it's precisely about
timbre - what systems or componants can you name that have, for you, an
uncannily realistic portrayal of timbre? I'm interested if there's any
pattern to how to achieve this. Andy



Easy - single fullrange drivers.

Even cheap 'industrial' FR drivers will demonstrate how much slurry is
pumped out of 'traditional', multiway speakers....

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

Easy - single fullrange drivers.

That's what I'm using. I keep adding tweeters and taking them off
again. I use 5" Monacor AL130 - aluminium cone. It's a very little
known driver, but I haven't replaced it in a long while. Cheap and
ordinary, but it produces excellent timbre for the most part of its
range - some breakup on treble but I can kind of live with it. When I
add crossovers something just goes. Bass is there - not extended but
the notes are there and it's tight. Andy

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

FWIW I have always found voice and piano quite a telling combination
once
you have some idea of the sound when present at the venue, etc

Absolutely, but how often can you say that!

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:30:53 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Andy Evans" wrote

This isn't a question about fidelity in general, it's precisely about
timbre - what systems or componants can you name that have, for you, an
uncannily realistic portrayal of timbre? I'm interested if there's any
pattern to how to achieve this. Andy


Easy - single fullrange drivers.

Even cheap 'industrial' FR drivers will demonstrate how much slurry is
pumped out of 'traditional', multiway speakers....

********. There is no 'full-range' driver which is anything like full
range, it's a matter of basic physics. Single-driver speakers *may* on
occasion be quite seductive on human voice, but a full orchestral work
is utterly beyond them - at both ends of the spectrum.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering