Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

Whatever any theories about 'absolute fidelity' say or don't say, back
in the real world some things about systems stand out - with some it's
bass, treble or mids, others it's transparency and detail, and so
forth. I'm one of those guys who's always been very sensitive to the
timbre of acoustic instruments, having been a musician for many years,
and this would apply to anyone that regularly hears live instruments in
the studio or concert hall (or kids practising...). By some fortuitous
combination of circumstances my present system has turned out - despite
some glaring flaws - to be quite uncanny in reproducing the timbre of
instruments.
This isn't a question about fidelity in general, it's precisely about
timbre - what systems or componants can you name that have, for you, an
uncannily realistic portrayal of timbre? I'm interested if there's any
pattern to how to achieve this. Andy

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

This invokes memories of Heathrow Hi Fi show c.198?. We went into a very
small room where an old foreign man was demo-ing his arm (turntable that
is). He played an old Ella mono LP from ancient times. She was in the room -
it sounded absolutely wonderful. Unfortunately the arm was way out of our
price-range - but I'll never forget that magic moment.
Now I occasionally play vinyl via my old Linn-Ittok-Asak combination and it
still sound "musical". Hard to explain but after 10 minutes or so the
instruments have that certain sound.........
Going on to CD.......... Well, my set-up seems to sound better than the
Lin - or does it? Never quite sure.
Wonderful music!


--
John the West Ham fan


"Andy Evans" wrote in message
ups.com...
Whatever any theories about 'absolute fidelity' say or don't say, back
in the real world some things about systems stand out - with some it's
bass, treble or mids, others it's transparency and detail, and so
forth. I'm one of those guys who's always been very sensitive to the
timbre of acoustic instruments, having been a musician for many years,
and this would apply to anyone that regularly hears live instruments in
the studio or concert hall (or kids practising...). By some fortuitous
combination of circumstances my present system has turned out - despite
some glaring flaws - to be quite uncanny in reproducing the timbre of
instruments.
This isn't a question about fidelity in general, it's precisely about
timbre - what systems or componants can you name that have, for you, an
uncannily realistic portrayal of timbre? I'm interested if there's any
pattern to how to achieve this. Andy

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

an old foreign man was demo-ing his arm (turntable that
is). He played an old Ella mono LP from ancient times. She was in the
room - it sounded absolutely wonderful.

I think I heard that too - can't remember what it was, maybe
Clearaudio. I do remember Ella in a similar room. So, that would be a
vote for vinyl in terms of timbre.

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

In article .com,
Andy Evans wrote:
I think I heard that too - can't remember what it was, maybe
Clearaudio. I do remember Ella in a similar room. So, that would be a
vote for vinyl in terms of timbre.

Only because you'd not heard better in those days. ;-)

--
*Who is this General Failure chap anyway - and why is he reading my HD? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

I do remember Ella in a similar room. So, that would be a
vote for vinyl in terms of timbre.

Only because you'd not heard better in those days. ;-)

I wasn't speaking for myself exactly here, if you look at the context.
But, yes I had heard better - to my ears. I once had a system which had
stacked Quad 57s (fronts and backs off) with Decca ribbon tweeters,
McIntosh amp driven direct by a phono stage I hard wired to the arm,
which was Hadcock/Decca Gold in a Thorens 124. Speaking just of timbre
and nothing else, that was very good indeed, thanks mostly to the
speakers. But yes, I do think that reproduction has progressed and I
believe I'm getting better results from CD but only through quite a
sophisticated DAC (Chris Found V-DAC 4) - speaking once again of
timbre. It's my impression that a really stand-out instrumental timbre
is affected by the weakest link in the reproduction chain - could be
things like capacitors and output transformers. I can quite see that
digital reproduction can bring a really good signal through to one's
home reproduction system, and in the case of amps like the very
impressive Lyngdorf ones, pretty much to the speakers themselves. I
still have a preference for valves between DAC and speaker, but the
Lyngdorf is close in terms of timbre, and better than all but the best
valve gear.

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

My own personal take on the instrument timbre issue is that the speakers are
critical (given that the rest of the system is well matched good gear) but
not for the usual hifi reasons. I think what really helps to achieve that
extra 'magic' is NOT having wide dispersion speakers as it bounces the
mid/treble around the room too much with the ears receiving multiple
reflections. This lessens the sense of hearing an individual instrument
working in it's own acoustic space as was present at the original recording.
It becomes a blurred mixture of the original acoustic and the listening
room's acoustic signature. Conversely, old speakers like the Quad 57 tend
to beam the sound straight at the listener resulting in a hypercritical
stereo sweet spot, but you can hear the original acoustic because of that
flaw and it can help make an instrument sound more 'real'.

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

In article , SteveB
sbrads@nildramDOTcoDOTuk wrote:
My own personal take on the instrument timbre issue is that the speakers
are critical (given that the rest of the system is well matched good
gear) but not for the usual hifi reasons. I think what really helps to
achieve that extra 'magic' is NOT having wide dispersion speakers as it
bounces the mid/treble around the room too much with the ears receiving
multiple reflections. This lessens the sense of hearing an individual
instrument working in it's own acoustic space as was present at the
original recording.

I'd agree with the above.

It also means that the response in use isn't as measured on-axis in an
anechoic chamber. Thus making such measurements considered in isolation of
dubious value.

It becomes a blurred mixture of the original acoustic and the listening
room's acoustic signature. Conversely, old speakers like the Quad 57
tend to beam the sound straight at the listener resulting in a
hypercritical stereo sweet spot, but you can hear the original acoustic
because of that flaw and it can help make an instrument sound more
'real'.

I'd agree that the speakers tend to be the critical part of the system. And
I prefer the ESL's. Partly for the dispersion reasons you give. Partly due
to the lower levels of colouration and distortion thay can provide.

Thus - despite having worked for some years as am amplifier designer - I
regard the importance of the amp as being much less than that of the
speaker, the room acoustic, and the placement of the speakers and listening
position in the room.

Slainte,

Jim

--
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Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

In article , Housetrained wrote:
This invokes memories of Heathrow Hi Fi show c.198?. We went into a very
small room where an old foreign man was demo-ing his arm (turntable that
is). He played an old Ella mono LP from ancient times. She was in the room -
it sounded absolutely wonderful. Unfortunately the arm was way out of our
price-range - but I'll never forget that magic moment.

I still use (and have never felt any desire to replace) a pair of Bowers &
Wilkins DM2 loudspeakers discovered in exactly the same manner at one of those
Heathrow shows in 1971 or 1972. I was sitting in the demo room looking at some
brochures and heard someone in front of me say something like "Good morning and
welcome to Bowers and Wilkins, we'd like to demonstrate our loudspeakers", so I
looked up and there was nobody there! The voice had been coming from a tape.

Rod.

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

It's interesting that the examples given so far have been the human
voice - obviously critical for timbre. funnily, the instruments I'm
most sensitive to are the woodwind - clarinet, oboe, bassoon, flute -
the piano and in particular the jazz drumkit. Since I was a jazz
bassist for many years I used to stand right next to the kit for hours
and hours on end, and the sounds of hi-hat, snare, ride and crash
cymbal, toms and bass drum are etched on my brain. When the drumkit is
right, top to bottom, there's not much wrong with the rest of it.
Cymbals in particular are a real test of an audio system. So are the
toms - they have a particular reverberation which is very distinctive.
Andy

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

In article .com, Andy
Evans wrote:
It's interesting that the examples given so far have been the human
voice - obviously critical for timbre. funnily, the instruments I'm
most sensitive to are the woodwind - clarinet, oboe, bassoon, flute -
the piano and in particular the jazz drumkit. Since I was a jazz
bassist for many years I used to stand right next to the kit for hours
and hours on end, and the sounds of hi-hat, snare, ride and crash
cymbal, toms and bass drum are etched on my brain. When the drumkit is
right, top to bottom, there's not much wrong with the rest of it.
Cymbals in particular are a real test of an audio system. So are the
toms - they have a particular reverberation which is very distinctive.
Andy

Yes, everybody will have their own preferred type of music, but the human
voice is probably the sound most commonly heard through a loudspeaker
that most people are familiar with as an acoustic source, so provided it
has been properly miked it is a very good test for realism. I'd guess
that the piano is a close second as far as familiarity goes, though
probably a more critical test because of the impulsive components of the
waveform. Pianos are notoriously difficult to portray convincingly on
loudspeakers for those that do know what the real thing should sound
like. The same is probably true of drums for the same reason, though
personally I don't listen to drums very much. I think that familiarity
with the sound of the real thing has quite a lot to do with the
acceptability of a replica.

Rod.