Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 12:30:53 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Andy Evans" wrote

This isn't a question about fidelity in general, it's precisely about
timbre - what systems or componants can you name that have, for you, an
uncannily realistic portrayal of timbre? I'm interested if there's any
pattern to how to achieve this. Andy


Easy - single fullrange drivers.

Even cheap 'industrial' FR drivers will demonstrate how much slurry is
pumped out of 'traditional', multiway speakers....

********. There is no 'full-range' driver which is anything like full
range, it's a matter of basic physics.



Relax Pinky, we *know that* - get the industry/world to change the 'label'
and we'll call 'em summat else. Plenty of people use FR drivers with either
or both of supertweets and subs as well as 'multiway' arrangements with....

with.....

with...

**CROSSOVERS**!!

There! Said it! :-)


Single-driver speakers *may* on
occasion be quite seductive on human voice, but a full orchestral work
is utterly beyond them - at both ends of the spectrum.


My turn now: **********.....

(Depends on your requirements/expectations/room...)

:-)

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
ups.com

Obviously, you are clueless about the role that recordings
play in the natural sound of playback

About as clueless are you are about actually playing live
music every night, but a much nicer chap.

OK so now you want to claim that you've got some kind of
tremendous advantage because you play live music every night
a week, and I only mix it 2-3 nights a week?

LOL!

The bottom line is that musos don't hear music like people
in the paying seats do. They don't hear it like a say a
minimalist microphone kit does. Given that I can and do
colocate myself with either as I wish...

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

OK so now you want to claim that you've got some kind of
tremendous advantage because you play live music

I never said that, but bear in mind that all the years I was working
with the timbre of my instrument(s) you were twiddling knobs. This
thread is about timbre, not your ego.

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
oups.com

OK so now you want to claim that you've got some kind of
tremendous advantage because you play live music

I never said that, but bear in mind that all the years I
was working with the timbre of my instrument(s) you were
twiddling knobs. This thread is about timbre, not your
ego.

Remind me again about how twidding with knobs of the kind I
do is less relevant to sound quality than the twidding you
do with a musical instrument.

A lot of musos need to face up to the fact that the sonic
perspective that a player or vocalist has on their
instrument is vastly different from that of anybody in the
audience. I stand next to performing musos at rehearsals
whenever I want to, and do it often. Almost totally
irrelevant to the timbre in the room.

And you obtain similar results with very close micing. Only
a little less strange.

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

Remind me again about how twidding with knobs of the kind I do is less
relevant to sound quality than the twidding you do with a musical
instrument.

Both are relevant to recorded music but they are different. Leaving out
particular cases of performed experimental and electronic music and
looking at, say, the usual classical repertoire, then the composer's
directions in the score are reproduced by the musicians. They determine
the timbre, nuances, speeds etc of the live performance. The audio
engineer is at one remove in the next generation of reproduction - that
of reproducing the work of the musicians. The work of the engineer
clearly affects the reproduction of timbre (though it doesn't produce
it as the musicians do) and adds on to that another new aspect, which
is the reproduction - as you say - of the venue and acoustic, which
isn't the job of the musicians. All are links in the chain to the
listener's armchair. You rightly say "hang on - what about the
acoustics - that's engineering" and you would be right. I have been
saying "what about the timbre", and that splits into two parts, the
musicians who create it and the engineers who reproduce it. On a
recording we can't have one without the other, but the work of the
musicians is primary and in live concerts exists without the engineer.
It's not a question of superiority, it's a question of where the
functions lie in the chain of reproduction and how important they are
in those stages between the composer's pen and the listener's armchair.
For instance, the acoustic is not the job of the composer, and writing
the score is not the job of the engineer. All recorded music is a
collaboration.

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

Andy Evans wrote:
Whatever any theories about 'absolute fidelity' say or don't say, back
in the real world some things about systems stand out - with some it's
bass, treble or mids, others it's transparency and detail, and so
forth. I'm one of those guys who's always been very sensitive to the
timbre of acoustic instruments, having been a musician for many years,

That's surprising; most musicians end up
with partial deafness!

BugBear

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

Thus spake bugbear:
Andy Evans wrote:
Whatever any theories about 'absolute fidelity' say or don't say,
back in the real world some things about systems stand out - with
some it's bass, treble or mids, others it's transparency and detail,
and so forth. I'm one of those guys who's always been very sensitive
to the timbre of acoustic instruments, having been a musician for
many years,

That's surprising; most musicians end up
with partial deafness!

BugBear


To the point that some orchestras are looking into ways of lessening the
problem. Perhaps the HSE will make earplugs compulsory :)

Audio systems that capture the timbre of instruments
 

To the point that some orchestras are looking into ways of lessening
the
problem. Perhaps the HSE will make earplugs compulsory :)

Deafness and tinnitus are common in musicians. Ear devices are already
used in the amplified music world, but orchestras are more of a
problem. Many have been through the stage of using sound screens in
rehearsals and then discarding them for many reasons. Placement in the
orchestra is a factor - the strings have more problems than the brass,
because they sit in front of the bells of the brass (I should know -
I'm a bassist). the instrument is also a factor - violinists have
partial loss of upper frequencies on the left side because of the
proximity of the violin to the ear on that side. There have been some
attempts to sue orchestras for hearing loss, but it's a complex matter
because some of the hearing damage is attributable to choice of
instrument and some to practice rather than rehearsal or concerts.
Proving negligence on the part of the orchestra is difficult but
possible, and this is a H&S area that orchestral managers are very
loath to think about. The musicians themselves didn't like the screens
much, and in any case a number of orchestras are effectively run by a
management committee of the musicians themselves, and in several the
musicians are freelance and not salaried.