In article . com, Andy
Evans wrote:
FWIW I have always found voice and piano quite a telling combination
once
you have some idea of the sound when present at the venue, etc

Absolutely, but how often can you say that!

Not everybody will have heard the particular voice in the particular
venue, but everybody knows if a human voice sounds human, and I'd guess
that many more people have had the chance to hear a piano than a full
orchestra.

That's valuable if you're interested in realism of course. I'm sure
many people often accept something they regard as "a pleasant sound",
never having heard the real thing at all.

Rod.

In article . com,
Andy
Evans wrote:
FWIW I have always found voice and piano quite a telling combination
once you have some idea of the sound when present at the venue, etc

Absolutely, but how often can you say that!

These days I rarely hear broadcasts/recordings from locations which I've
visited recently. However for a few decades when I lived in London I used
to go to performances at such places a few times per month, and then hear
them via R3, etc. I suspect that thousands of other people could have been
doing much the same.

FWIW it seems to me that if anyone is concerned about the fidelity of their
sound system, doing something like this is likely to be an important
requirement to 'calibrate' your perceptions.

OTOH If the only aim is a 'pleasing sound' then there is no need for such
calibration as you only have to twiddle about with the speakers, etc, until
you get that, with no regard for what any acoustic performance/venue might
sound like.

I used to moan about the sound balance from the old (pre 'flying saucers')
proms at the RAH - until I started going to proms and realised the BBC were
doing a good job of presenting the performance in the relevant acoustic!
:-) If I had not done that, and had not also visited the RFH, St John's,
Maida Vale, etc, then I might have spent a lot of time trying to 'improve'
things away from being a decent representation of the actual sound when
sitting at the venues... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article .com,
Andy Evans wrote:
That's what I'm using. I keep adding tweeters and taking them off
again. I use 5" Monacor AL130 - aluminium cone. It's a very little
known driver, but I haven't replaced it in a long while. Cheap and
ordinary, but it produces excellent timbre for the most part of its
range - some breakup on treble but I can kind of live with it. When I
add crossovers something just goes. Bass is there - not extended but
the notes are there and it's tight

So what you're saying is it's a good mid range driver? ;-)

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
ups.com

Whatever any theories about 'absolute fidelity' say or
don't say, back in the real world some things about
systems stand out - with some it's bass, treble or mids,
others it's transparency and detail, and so forth. I'm
one of those guys who's always been very sensitive to the
timbre of acoustic instruments, having been a musician
for many years, and this would apply to anyone that
regularly hears live instruments in the studio or concert
hall (or kids practising...). By some fortuitous
combination of circumstances my present system has turned
out - despite some glaring flaws - to be quite uncanny in
reproducing the timbre of instruments.
This isn't a question about fidelity in general, it's
precisely about timbre - what systems or componants can
you name that have, for you, an uncannily realistic
portrayal of timbre? I'm interested if there's any
pattern to how to achieve this. Andy

Obviously, you are clueless about the role that recordings
play in the natural sound of playback.

"Andy Evans" wrote in
message

oups.com
how much the 'sound of a piano' changes from one room to
another and with one mic placement to another. Thus the
resulting timbe is somewhat variable

Yes, it is. That's one reason why I tend to focus on
woodwind and drumkit - the drumkit is usually fairly
close mic-ed, and the tone of the winds tends to come
through the orchestra. The enormous reverberation caused
by a grand piano makes it quite unreliable as regards
consistancy of timbre, though obviously it can't be
completely disregarded as a reference. I find vocals
rather unreliable as a reference because the mic and
placement tends to be a variable, and of course each
singer is quite different in timbre so there's no
consistency at all about the quality of the voice. Andy

The room the recording was done in, the mic and the
placement are always major variables in recordings. A
playback system is ideal for only one combination of the
above.

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 09:19:46 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article . com,
Andy
Evans wrote:
FWIW I have always found voice and piano quite a telling combination
once you have some idea of the sound when present at the venue, etc

Absolutely, but how often can you say that!

These days I rarely hear broadcasts/recordings from locations which I've
visited recently. However for a few decades when I lived in London I used
to go to performances at such places a few times per month, and then hear
them via R3, etc. I suspect that thousands of other people could have been
doing much the same.

FWIW it seems to me that if anyone is concerned about the fidelity of their
sound system, doing something like this is likely to be an important
requirement to 'calibrate' your perceptions.

OTOH If the only aim is a 'pleasing sound' then there is no need for such
calibration as you only have to twiddle about with the speakers, etc, until
you get that, with no regard for what any acoustic performance/venue might
sound like.

I used to moan about the sound balance from the old (pre 'flying saucers')
proms at the RAH - until I started going to proms and realised the BBC were
doing a good job of presenting the performance in the relevant acoustic!
:-) If I had not done that, and had not also visited the RFH, St John's,
Maida Vale, etc, then I might have spent a lot of time trying to 'improve'
things away from being a decent representation of the actual sound when
sitting at the venues... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

I think that St. John's is the place the Beeb do best. I often go to
concerts there, and the R3 broadcasts later on really do sound very
similar. Studios like Maida Vale are a bit more problematic, being
rather drier, they do tend to add a bit of ambience for broadcast, and
the similarity is entirely lost - although the sound is indeed nicer.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Andy Evans wrote:

Cymbals in particular are a real test of an audio system. So are the
toms - they have a particular reverberation which is very distinctive.

Agreed, but the *real* test is on the recording side. If the particular
properties of the sound are not captured by the recording equipment, any
attempt at reproducing them is futile.

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/

Obviously, you are clueless about the role that recordings
play in the natural sound of playback

About as clueless are you are about actually playing live music every
night, but a much nicer chap.

"Roderick Stewart" wrote


That's valuable if you're interested in realism of course. I'm sure
many people often accept something they regard as "a pleasant sound",
never having heard the real thing at all.


**Ding!**

:-)

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
Easy - single fullrange drivers.

That's what I'm using. I keep adding tweeters and taking them off
again. I use 5" Monacor AL130 - aluminium cone. It's a very little
known driver, but I haven't replaced it in a long while. Cheap and
ordinary, but it produces excellent timbre for the most part of its
range - some breakup on treble but I can kind of live with it. When I
add crossovers something just goes. Bass is there - not extended but
the notes are there and it's tight. Andy



I have a pair of Loths with a supertweeter - it does nothing, an 8 quid
single 3 inch Visaton FR8S I use can equal/better it for top-end
sweetness....