Patrick Turner wrote:

Its safe to assume nothing of superlative quality comes out of asia.

This is not quite true. I know one Japanese amp manufacturer who gets
excellent transformers out of China. He goes with a design and a
prototype for precisely what he wants, he supervises the work, he
refuses to pay for the entire batch if the tiniest little thing is
wrong. The result is a superb transformer. It isn't however cheap. This
guy has merely shifted the costs from expensive Japanese labour into
expensive design and very expensive supervision (count his time and
airfares). It suits this manic obsessive because a Japanese winder will
never stand still for a customer refusing to pay for an entire batch
because he finds a rough spot on a casing, which is an actual example I
heard from his wife. (I also heard that in the beginning the Chinese
winders were so inexpert, they couldn't match supposedly identical
transformers to within half a Henry even in the same batch. My local
generator rewinders do better than that!) He makes a limp effort to
talk up the savings but I estimate, taking his time into account, that
the actual saving is maybe 10 per cent, which accounts for him being
able to sell super quality amps at 15 or even sometimes 20 per cent
below his nearest competitors, quality for quality; depending on
whether he gives the saving to the customer or takes half of it for
profit. (See below about multipliers.) But, since he doesn't sell on
price anyway, being at the top end of the market, his Chinese option
isn't price-driven but an aspect of control of all his component inputs
for which he is willing to pay in time and effort.

The significant thing is that I don't see those expensive transformer
designs ripped off by the Chinese and offered for sale in the West. (He
asked me once if he could protect his designs in China and I told him
not to bother trying because the effort would fail.) The reason is
clearly that the price of a proper transformer will be too high, so
that people will say they're saving too few bucks to risk a Chinese
transformer, and buy the known-good brand instead.

Thus, at the quality end of the market, a Chinese product isn't
necessarily going to be all that significantly cheaper after factoring
in the cost of the skills and time to get it up to the best standard.

Don't bother searching for cheap OPTs made in china.

There are none to be had that are any good.

A quick glance at the map will show you why. It costs to ship iron; it
costs to ship bulk. Even with the cheap Chinese labour, to make up for
the carriage they have to cheapen the entire thing, inevitably making
the transformer smaller for less weight and bulk, and therefore less
capable.

Thus far the problem for the DIYer, who usually buys at the end of a
very short distribution chain. (For instance, Lundahl transformers are
such good value for money because you can buy direct from the factory,
or via a single middleman.)

The problem for the Western amp manufacturer is different, at least at
the low end of the market. That cheap labour, and other quality
savings, in China is multiplied every time another middleman appears in
the chain. So a Chinese complete amp can cost forty per cent of price
of a cheap amp from the Western manufacturer. In the eyes of the less
discriminating consumer (probably new to tube amps) the price
difference is vastly larger than the quality difference. (1) That in
turns broadens the market to people who before could not afford a
luxury item, which in turns makes the position of the Western
manufacturer worse because he is set up for expensive niche market
manufacture, while the Chinese are mass market manufacturers. I expect
this spiral to continue and deepen, until in a few years when the
Western manufacturers have been driven out of business or at least out
of starter tube amps, the Chinese will use their low-end base to start
creeping upwards.

But I don't see why that is a problem for you, Patrick. Your typical
customer always wanted something better and always will. What will
happen is merely that the niche makers, like you, will benefit because
the Conrad Johnsons and ARCs, having lost their starter market, will
have to up the prices of their best gear to stay in business, so making
the niche makers more competitive and even more desirable.

It is a mistake for you always to be whining about costs. You should
talk about quality instead.

Andre Jute

(1) In a concurrent thread on UKRA, Keith G talks about buying three
Chinese tube amps... I don't know if he is new to tube amps, but his
eyes have been opened. It may be that, having learned the joy of tubes
amps from the cheap Chinese, he will next aspire to a really good
quality amp. It is equally possible that, unless his ears and taste are
very well-developed, he will find the improvement he can hear in a
quality tube amp not justified by several multiples of the cost of a
Chinese amp. I'm crossposting this to UKRA so we can hear his opinion.