"mick" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:38:14 +0000, Trevor Wilson burbled:

snip

**Stewart has already covered his arse, by stating the frequency response
AT THE SPEAKER TERMINALS must be within 0.1dB. Stewart knows full well
that it is very easy to expose easily audible differences between speaker
cables. After level matching, that task becomes well nigh impossible.

He is quite right. You are testing for a difference in cables, not sound
level, so that has to be taken out of the equation. The level matching
also makes sure that the speakers are starting from the same common base
line. He has only fixed 2 frequency points to match, not the full response
curve and not via a mic, so there is plenty of room for exotic cables to
prove themselves - if they can.

**You miss the point. That is EXACTLY how (most) exotic speaker cables DO
sound different.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:00:25 +0000 (UTC), "neutron"
wrote:


"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
.com...
In article , Stewart
Pinkerton wrote:
I note that FM, when challenged, runs and hides behind the
'thousands'
that such a test would cost. What utter bull****! He's perfectly
free
to do the test in his own salon with his own 'reference' system, the
only requirement is that a third party changes the power cables, and
that neither Marshall nor the test proctor knows which cable is
connected at any one time. This can easily be arranged, and I for
one
would be happy to travel at my own expense.

Make sure you take a photographer, a reporter, and several independent
witnesses, and let us know where we can read about the results.

I'm not sure Stewart would want an independent witness present, he could
never show his face again.


I think that pretty much without exception, all of us who believe that
competent cables are indistinguishable from high end cables are coming
from a scientific point of view. That means that we would welcome
being proved wrong as a route to further insight into the subject.

It is noticeably the other side that runs and hides when it comes to
the test.

How confident are you, though? Would you be prepared to wager some
cash of your own on your ability? I know it is not part of the deal as
proposed by Stewart, but it would seem like a nice gesture of good
faith - as things are he only stands to lose.



I don't see this 'challenge' will ever be taken up - factor in a
'financial
risk' and I think you can forget about it....

There are plenty of cable believers who have no financial risk, the fact of
the matter is Stewart is a grade 'A' prick, arrogant to the extreme, smarmy,
with his head wedged fully up his own arsehole. Would you invite someone
like that into your home?

neutron wrote:

There are plenty of cable believers who have no financial risk, the fact of
the matter is Stewart is a grade 'A' prick, arrogant to the extreme, smarmy,
with his head wedged fully up his own arsehole. Would you invite someone
like that into your home?

Is this what psychologists call 'projection'?

--
Eiron

I have no spirit to play with you; your dearth of judgment renders you
tedious - Ben Jonson.

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Joe Folly wrote:
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum1/2862.html

A new thread. I believe. The older thread did continue as you say
unabated. It appears that anyone who doubts the sellers of the cable
get abused immediately.
They appear to be picking on some people at another forum
http://forum.hifichoice.co.uk as well.


"What is a newsgroup. All I get a list of them. looks like a jumbled up
over complicated forum."

(Sigh) I think I have been using the Internet for too many years now.

--
Nick

Trouble is, most people move on to messageboards years ago, newsgroups are
filled these days with weirdos, social misfit, and assholes.

In article , Neutron wrote:
I don't see this 'challenge' will ever be taken up - factor in a
'financial
risk' and I think you can forget about it....

There are plenty of cable believers who have no financial risk, the fact of
the matter is Stewart is a grade 'A' prick, arrogant to the extreme, smarmy,
with his head wedged fully up his own arsehole. Would you invite someone
like that into your home?

Is this the best that the "cable believers" can offer by way of well informed
logically reasoned argument when offered a challenge? is it supposed to
increase the propensity of the scientific community, or indeed anyone, to
accept their point of view, and if so, how?

Rod.

"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
om...
In article , Neutron
wrote:
I don't see this 'challenge' will ever be taken up - factor in a
'financial
risk' and I think you can forget about it....

There are plenty of cable believers who have no financial risk, the fact
of
the matter is Stewart is a grade 'A' prick, arrogant to the extreme,
smarmy,
with his head wedged fully up his own arsehole. Would you invite someone
like that into your home?

Is this the best that the "cable believers" can offer by way of well
informed
logically reasoned argument when offered a challenge? is it supposed to
increase the propensity of the scientific community, or indeed anyone, to
accept their point of view, and if so, how?

trouble is mate, when Stewart acts the way he does, he's going to find it
hard to make friends with anyone who has opposing views. It's the reason
he's doomed to posting on usenet, he's not welcome anywhere else because he
acts like a cocky prick. I think perhaps he does it purposefully because he
doesn't actually want anyone to sit the test.

neutron wrote:
"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...

Joe Folly wrote:

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum1/2862.html

A new thread. I believe. The older thread did continue as you say
unabated. It appears that anyone who doubts the sellers of the cable
get abused immediately.
They appear to be picking on some people at another forum
http://forum.hifichoice.co.uk as well.


"What is a newsgroup. All I get a list of them. looks like a jumbled up
over complicated forum."

(Sigh) I think I have been using the Internet for too many years now.

--
Nick


Trouble is, most people move on to messageboards years ago, newsgroups are
filled these days with weirdos, social misfit, and assholes.



Well given that at least ye and me are still here, you have suggested
three categories we fall into, which one do you feel fits yorself best?

I have long been happy to be weirdo social misfit, so that leaves one
for you.

:-)

--
Nick

In article , Neutron wrote:
trouble is mate, when Stewart acts the way he does, he's going to find it
hard to make friends with anyone who has opposing views. It's the reason
he's doomed to posting on usenet, he's not welcome anywhere else because he
acts like a cocky prick. I think perhaps he does it purposefully because he
doesn't actually want anyone to sit the test.

You may dislike his personality, but what about his views with regard to the
scientific assessment of loudspeaker cables?

If you really want to annoy him, rather than wasting childish words here, what
better way than to *take* the listening test under properly controlled
conditions in front of witnesses and prove him wrong - if you really think he
is wrong of course. If he is proved wrong, you'll be a thousand pounds richer
too, so what have you got to lose?

Rod.

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 21:23:02 GMT, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

anyone can easily understand that
comparing 12AWG cable to 24 AWG over long runs is not a reasonable
test. OTOH, I have already compared fifteen feet of Naim NACA5,
probably the most inductive speaker cable you can buy, to an ultra-low
inductance design into my own 3-ohm speakers. There was a *measured*
difference of more than 1dB at 20kHz, but no *audible* difference
whatever.

You're just whining and crying for no apparent reason. What, do *you*
think that Kimber 'Black Pearl' has any value ina domestic hi-fi
system? If so, why?

**I can't find Black Pearl amongst their speaker cable listing. Is it a very
old, or a very new product? What is the inductance of the cable?

It's been around for 4 or 5 years, costs £1,000 a foot (yes, a grand a
foot!), and has very low inductance. If you're about to suggest that
fifty feet of it would sound different from fifty feet of 12 AWG
zipcord when driving Quads, I wouldn't necessairily argue - but that's
hardly the point.

As often noted, any fool can come up with an unrealistic cable to
'cheat' the test, which is why the level-matching requrement exists.
This isn't about EE 101, it's about the bull**** claims of Kimber,
Transparent, Cardas, MIT et al.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 22:13:29 +0000 (UTC), "neutron"
wrote:


"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:00:25 +0000 (UTC), "neutron"
wrote:


"Roderick Stewart" wrote in message
.com...
In article , Stewart
Pinkerton wrote:
I note that FM, when challenged, runs and hides behind the
'thousands'
that such a test would cost. What utter bull****! He's perfectly
free
to do the test in his own salon with his own 'reference' system, the
only requirement is that a third party changes the power cables, and
that neither Marshall nor the test proctor knows which cable is
connected at any one time. This can easily be arranged, and I for
one
would be happy to travel at my own expense.

Make sure you take a photographer, a reporter, and several independent
witnesses, and let us know where we can read about the results.

I'm not sure Stewart would want an independent witness present, he could
never show his face again.


I think that pretty much without exception, all of us who believe that
competent cables are indistinguishable from high end cables are coming
from a scientific point of view. That means that we would welcome
being proved wrong as a route to further insight into the subject.

It is noticeably the other side that runs and hides when it comes to
the test.

How confident are you, though? Would you be prepared to wager some
cash of your own on your ability? I know it is not part of the deal as
proposed by Stewart, but it would seem like a nice gesture of good
faith - as things are he only stands to lose.


I don't see this 'challenge' will ever be taken up - factor in a
'financial
risk' and I think you can forget about it....

There are plenty of cable believers who have no financial risk, the fact of
the matter is Stewart is a grade 'A' prick, arrogant to the extreme, smarmy,
with his head wedged fully up his own arsehole. Would you invite someone
like that into your home?

I don't have to be there, you moron. The grade A arrogant pricks are
the ones who claim they can hear cable differences, but run a mile
from providing *proof* of this, even when there's a considerable cash
prize as well as bragging rights to be won.

Oh yeah, that would be *you*, wouldn't it? :-)

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering