"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote

Valves or SS, the better legacy 'names' are commanding big money
everywhere (as your dealer is telling you and as the two Sugdens I was
watching on eBay told me) and I suspect you could easily sell empty
cardboard boxes with the names Tannoy or Lowther on them these days!

:-) Indeed. I am happy to have a workshop full of worthless
old retro crap:-))


:-)


But I hesitate to suggest why there is great interest in SE - obviously
it
could be a 'sound quality' thing (as it is for me) but there's no
escaping
the increased publicity and much easier availability of SET amps will
have
some effect?

It seems that people find SET pleasing in a musical way.


Yes, this is fundamental. A better, more *pleasing* sound is what it's all
about AFAIAC....

It needs to be clearly stated that not everyone will like the SET/Horn
combination - I do, but then then I'm not overly endowed with the *technical
knowledge* that makes this 'difficult' for some people...!! ;-)



However, I am not sure if the Chinese presence is a good or a bad
thing. These amps do perhaps give people an "entry level" perspective
into thermionic audio, but at the same time the modest performance
may give the wrong impression of what a valve amp can do.


If valve amps are simply too expensive for impoverished/curious types, they
will never join the growing legions of 'thermionophiles'. I'm fairly sure,
that once they have got their feet wet, they will be curious about 'better
amps' and, now that valves are almost parallel with SS stuff on prices, a
clear upgrade path becomes visible presenting some interesting options. This
is where you come in - as a specialist builder in Europe, you have a hundred
quid advantage over Far Eastern competition on shipping costs alone. (It's
not for nothing that current 'modern' audio gear from the East weighs
*ounces*...)

(Not so in the 'Podes, though - poor old Pat "Lend Us A Shag 'Til I Get
Paid" Turner is stoked. Over there they are buying dirt girt Chinese valve
amps with big squidgy feet for the sole purpose of flattening out out their
warped vinyl, I gather!! ;-)

Either way, valve amp builders will have to do more to convince the buying
public that they are offering superior quality now that they are up against
stiff competition - it's possibly harsh and will probably weed out out a few
of the weaker players, but it's for the good of all, ultimately!!

(Luckily, even a modest valve amp has little or no trouble seeing off
similarly-priced SS competition, from what I can see/hear of it! ;-)


Few valve amps from Asia are sold through dealers, and so have
very questionable warranty rights. The component and build quality
is not too good at the moment (it will take them a while to get it right)
so failures within the first year are commom. This too creates a negative
impression.


Warranties from Chinese dealers (eBay) are *worthless* - when my volume pot
went tits up the dealer (Edmund Lam, aka 'Zagger1' on Fleabay) promised a
replacement - it never arrived. When I pointed this out to him after some
weeks, he promised to put another in the post - guess what....??

I have always said that people who can't fettle a valve amp shouldn't risk
the more exotic examples from the Far East. IME, European valve amps (very
likely *made* in China) like the (bullet proof?) Dynavox are a much safer
'entry option'....



I think it's all very healthy - a number of the people I 'speak to' who
are getting (or have just got) valve amps are quite young, so it's not a
'nostalgia thing' for them and, if it is simply a question of free choice
falling in favour of valves, then all I can safely say is 'Well, it ain't
just me!'!!

There was a whole generation that missed out on thermionic audio.


I almost did. Obviously, radios and record players (stereograms) were valves
when I wuz a kid, but I wasn't taking much notice. Maybe I have/had
deep-seated/ingrained memories of the sound quality and was trying
unsuccessfully to find it with SS gear??


The members of the music appreciation group to which I belong
(now twenty two strong) have thirteen valve power amps between
them. These people are very serious listeners, so a thermionic
presence well in excess of 50% speaks for itself.


AFAIAC, disregarding the excellent little Sony AV amp on the telly setup,
with my own amps currently running at 100% valve, it most certainly *does*
speak for itself!!

;-)

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...


G'd evening Keith!

I have just come back from a pleasant few hours fettling in my den of
excellence. A CCS cathode follower is bubbling nicely on the front
burner:-)

It seems that people find SET pleasing in a musical way.

Yes, this is fundamental. A better, more *pleasing* sound is what it's all
about AFAIAC....

Yes. My pal Peter Lewis used to call it the M (musicality) factor.
Peter was a design engineer at Leevers Rich, in the UK. He was a "real"
(not just an NG armchair) engineer, in that he was constantly building
and trying out something. He made a very good living even after retirement
building bespoke valve amps for discerning clients. He could offer the
features and attention to detail which no larger maker can offer.

It needs to be clearly stated that not everyone will like the SET/Horn
combination - I do, but then then I'm not overly endowed with the
*technical knowledge* that makes this 'difficult' for some people...!!
;-)

Hmm. Once the technical performance has been assessed,
and we know what the amp can (or cannot) do, why not sit back and
enjoy what it has to offer?

If valve amps are simply too expensive for impoverished/curious types,
they will never join the growing legions of 'thermionophiles'. I'm fairly
sure, that once they have got their feet wet, they will be curious about
'better amps' and, now that valves are almost parallel with SS stuff on
prices, a clear upgrade path becomes visible presenting some interesting
options.

Yes. Interesting point. My dealer pal tells me that he can offer an
entry level valve amp for about the same money as a mid price SS system.
From then on, the only way is up :-)

(Not so in the 'Podes, though - poor old Pat "Lend Us A Shag 'Til I Get
Paid" Turner is stoked. Over there they are buying dirt girt Chinese valve
amps with big squidgy feet for the sole purpose of flattening out out
their warped vinyl, I gather!! ;-)

Patrick is very smart. He keeps his outfit small, and offers a very good
build and repair service. He has an enviable reputation, and customers
recommend him to others, and keep coming back. His amplifiers are
excellent examples of "tube-craft". He is a very nice guy too, and always
ready with help and advice when asked.

Either way, valve amp builders will have to do more to convince the buying
public that they are offering superior quality now that they are up
against stiff competition - it's possibly harsh and will probably weed out
out a few of the weaker players, but it's for the good of all,
ultimately!!

Yes agreed. The problem is one of volume. I am told that there are
ten different brands of Chinese/Taiwanese/Thai amps all almost identical
and built in the same factory. Isn't that what British Leyland used to call
"badge engineering" in the sixties, with Austrin, Morris, Wolsely, Riley
etc etc??

The Chinese buy their transformers by the ship-load. An order of
20 pcs for a European winder, is cause for celebration. So costs are
many times higher.


Warranties from Chinese dealers (eBay) are *worthless* - when my volume
pot went tits up the dealer (Edmund Lam, aka 'Zagger1' on Fleabay)
promised a replacement - it never arrived. When I pointed this out to him
after some weeks, he promised to put another in the post - guess
what....??

This is leading to an interesting new development. There is a Swedish amp
builder I know who now offers a five year unconditional warranty, extendable
to ten years for his valve amps (90 days for valves) This is an expression
of confidence in the quality of his product.

There was a whole generation that missed out on thermionic audio.

I almost did. Obviously, radios and record players (stereograms) were
valves when I wuz a kid, but I wasn't taking much notice. Maybe I have/had
deep-seated/ingrained memories of the sound quality and was trying
unsuccessfully to find it with SS gear??

Could be:-) My father was the proud owner of a mono set up in the
fifties, Leak TL12. We used to listen to Schubert. Then I used to sneak
upstairs and play Elvis Presley "All Shook Up" on the Dansette (or
whatever the thing was called)

Nothin' like a bit of culture on a Sunday:-)

Iain

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Those of you with a predilection for copious amounts of glass and iron in
your amplifiers go scrute this site thoroughly:

http://www.sacthailand.com/



Those of you who like copious amounts of wood on your amps go see he

http://www.edgar.sk/index.php?id=8&lng=ENG


Czech where this stuff comes from!!

(No market for valves anywhere much, these days.....!! ;-)