"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:29:52 GMT, wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:12:02 GMT, wrote:

How would you know that an amp NOT YET BUILT would sound "****ty"?

Because it was an SET.

Can you give us the names of the last 10 SETs that you've listened to?

I could, but then I'd have to kill you.
Besides, one POS amp is enough, or are you telling me that there are SET
amps that can play at normal levels without massive distortion?

OK, how about even one SET that you have sampled? It would be nice to
know the associated gear (especially speakers) and what kind of music
you listened to. Quoting from any on-the-spot notes that you made
would be nice, but you can use your memory if you'd like. It would be
nice to hear what specifically bothered you about the sound.

BTW, are you telling me that if I listened to a single SS amp, like,
say a Phase Linear amp, I'd be able to condemn the whole species?
Because that's what you seem to be saying, that one can extrapolate
from a single example.


The only SET I ever heard was one that a friend had built from a kit. This
was over 12 years ago. At the time I compare it to a 40 WPC HK730, which
easily sounded better to me.

This guy was a very big tube and LP advocate and had no use whatsoever fo
SS, and that's his perogative. It's simply not what I care about.

You seem to forget that it's about accuracy for me. Knowing that a device
is generating audible distortion automatically disqualifies it from being
considered for anything other than a doorstop/ room heater.

It's bad enough that speakers have as much distortion as they do, I don't
want another device that would effectively double it. That's why I firmly
believe that the real high end that people ought to be pursuing is
loudspeakers. Nothing, absolutely nothing makes more improvement to an
audio system than upgrading speaker performance, either by tuning the room
passively or through active means, or some combination.

The single biggest producer of distortion in an audio system is coming from
the speakers and the only methods I'm aware of for changing that are going
to come from new materials, sensors, more drivers, or auto EQ built into the
speakers, ala the NHT's that were favorably reviewed in SP a while ago.
There's no point for me to bother with anything else, since it can't improve
the overall accuracy of the system.

Show me one reasonably priced (under $1000.00) SET amp that can produce 100+
watts and not have audible distortion, and I'll consider it for a listen.

On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:30:45 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:


So not only is Jute *grossly* lying about the number of posts I made,
he fails to note that he himself made significantly more - also his
tend to be *much* more verbose than mine

You're kidding! I've never noticed that. :-)

You said to NYOB:
Before you so stupidly try to convince us Andre is merely copying out what he
found in a book,
please provide evidence to support your alegations.
From which book did Andre copy his info from?


Stupidity is only one part of it. This insolent loudmouth
learnt his huckster manners in his time as a hifi salesman.
Permit me to quote myself:
Quote #! 1 " He repeats his favourite gambit at least once a week:
The "all the rest of the researchers " (meaning "me and all the
rest"? Black humour?) and "manufacturers" are crazy about
ABX.
He polled " all the manufacturers" in his hifi shop sales days
and asked "all the rest" of the researchers ie those who
didn/t show him the door if they use ABX weekly daily or
every minute of their life.
And he offers this fool-proof statistical miracle to everyone
free of charge.
He rests his case.

Quote #2 NYOB has a revelation for the world of medicine:
I haven't participated in any medical ABX testing either, but I don't want
any new meds that weren't.


Regretfully he ommitted the full details of his epoch-making
discovery.
Presumably it goes something like this:
First researcher:"This guy has bacterial endocarditis.
If he doesn't get penicillin he's sure to die"
2nd researcher: "But I got funded to find out if this new drug works.
Let's give him one week of penicillin and then one week of my drug. If
at the end of two
weeks he's still alive we'll give him one or the other and ask him
which one
was it most like Penicillin or my new one"
"Great. Now we're really making waves"
This, and I'm weighing my words, functional illiterate
promises
to correct blind fate's error. If he refuses any medication that was
not
ABX tested he will make good a DNA mistake. Because a medication
tested by ABX does not exist.
Ludovic Mirabel

Patrick Turner wrote:
wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...
WHY STEWART PINKERTON IS UNRELIABLE

2. THE STATISTICS OF MALICE
In the latter part of 2004, at the request of leading members, I
started a major project called KISS on rec.audio.tubes (RAT).

Translation: Jute said he was going to start a project called KISS so that
he could perhaps impress some of the SET lovers with yet another example of
a ****ty sounding amp.

Unfortunately for you, SET amps are not necessarily ****ty sounding.
At rec.audio.tubes, ppl are expected to be positively interestested in tube
craft,
rather than have a destructive agenda.

Stewart Pinkerton, aka Oinkerton the Pig, is like somebody who would join in
discussions
at rec.radio.amateur.homebrew by trying to tell all the assembled hobbyists and
other
commercial interested folks there that they are a stupid bunch of fools because
they
dare to build their own radio gear when of course it is easier and more
effective to use the Internet
to transfer information.





Pinkerton
arrived and announced he would deconstruct the project.

Translation: Jute took somebody else's design from a book he read and
claimed it was his own and when Stewart saw what a piece of crap it was said
he could build a similarly simple SS amp.

What does onw call one's own amp that one builds? One calls it one's own.
It may be almost identical to other designs, but it is the amp that Andre built,

and Andre has a right to say it is his, so ppl know that, and know the
differences between it and anyone else's design.

Pinkerton failed to establish why Andre's amp was a piece of crap,
and failed quite miserably to build anything better, and durung the process
rightly earned his nickname as Oinkerton, because his attidude was
the same as a person insisting he sell pork in a synogogue.





Between the
beginning of October 2004 and the middle of February 2006 he sent 4607
messages to RAT, a labour conservatively estimated to have taken him
767 hours, or more than a quarter of his working hours in the same
period, the major part of his free time.

Based on teh math of someone with not only way to much free time, but
someone who apparently can't type very fast.

Andre simply points out the fact that Oinkerton posted a pile of many unwanted,
unappreciated
and idiotic posts at rec.audio.tubes.
I don't know if Oinkerton posted 46, 460, 4,600 times.
But he did post a great amount of ****, none of which earned him the slightest
amount of
respect amounf the few here with a real interest in tube craft of amoung the
closit
solderers who build home brew solid state gear.



He told us that the purpose
was to expose my ignorance and prevent others following in my
footsteps.

Tranlation: Stewart was going to expose Jute's ignorance and try to prevent
others from following in Jute's footsteps.

But Oinkerton's ignorance is far worse, and anyone following in his footsteps
will get bogged
and smelly so much faster than if you followed in Andre's steps.





His 4607 posts were all abusive.

Unlike Jute's posts which are complete crap.

Oinkerton is anti tubecraft, Andre is pro-tubecraft.

Thius is a tube craft group; rec.audio.tubes is its title.

if you cannot or will not contribute positively to tube craft
then **** off.



Only one, considered below,
was electronically specific enough for me to consider comparing it to
what I had published.

IOW, it was the only one simpleenough for you to understand.

As the result of Pinkerton's 4607 posts, not a
single line of the booklength KISS materials was altered, not a single
fact was altered, not a single schematic was altered in the slightest.

IOW, Jute didn't change a thing bcause he didn't have another book to copy
from.

Jute's circuit works. There was no reason for him to change anything.

Before you so stupidly try to convince us Andre is merely copying out what he
found in a book,
please provide evidence to support your alegations.
From which book did Andre copy his info from?



As the result of Pinkerton's 4607 posts, no party interested in the
KISS project in the beginning dropped out, and no one who became
interested during its course was deterred in the slightest.

IOW, nobody built the KISS amp, not even Jute.

Pinkerton's 4607 vicious posts gave him great satisfaction, according
to him, but had no other result whatsoever (except to make
Pinkerton's name a byword for barbaric insensitivity and foul
manners).

IOW, Jute was shown for the incompetent boob that everybody already knew he
was.

Not correct.
Oinkerton admitted before ceasing to post at rec.audio tubes for some months
that
he hadn't built the supposedly simple SS amp he had designed.
He had no intention to build a working sample, test it honestly, post the
results,
and do so all without posting personally inflamatatory comments about the
300B amp.

To anyone reading r.a.t who has an IQ above 50, Oinkerton seems to come across
as a
complete jerk.

Andre may be wordy, and long winded, but he's fundementally here for the tubes.
He has a flair for demolishing ppl like Oinkerton, something Oinkerton begs for.

Unfortunately, the argy bargy between the two doesn't look good to the fragiles
who come here
to talk tubes, they go away, seeking safer refuges where their opinions won't be

attacked by jerks like Oinkerton.

Oinkerton's presence s has degraded what might otherwise be a good discussion
group.
Despite this time of year being cool in the northern hemisphre with ppl mainly
locked indoors
with their hobbies at least at night, hardly anyone is building gear and
discussing the experiences
here like they used to.
One reaon is that Oinketon and his sympathisers are too everpresent.

Oinkerton would be immediately banned, filtered out, kill filed in any moderated
group.



In all Pinkerton's 4607 posts counted here, he did not once
analyze the circuit of the amp he objected to while it stood for more
than a year on public view.

Something you couldn't possibly know.

By contrast to Pinkerton's vicious and
loud slackness, Patrick Turner analyzed the circuit and made
suggestions which were incorporated, and John Byrns made another
important suggestion which we shall shortly discuss and then
incorporate because I have already tested it.

After how long? A year? Two?

And what exactly is your analysis?

Just what informative and useful point are you trying to make?



From Pinkerton all this
while, zero. In short, Pinkerton's claim of my ignorance is a sham,
an excuse for him to indulge his malicious urge to bring pain to
everyone else, 4607 times in 15 months on a single newsgroup.

IOW Stewart designed and built his KISS Ass amp and then waited for Jute to
build his. Finally he posted a picture of the amp which was shown to have
been taken just a few days ago and not at the time Jute claims he built it.

By the way McCoy I just won $5000.00 betting that you would launch yet
another tirade against Stewart.

But you made yourself look like a complete loser.

Feel welcome to collect the 5 grand.

Exactly what contributions to tube craft are you going to make?

Patrick Turner.

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 21:49:02 GMT, wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 23:29:52 GMT, wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:12:02 GMT, wrote:

How would you know that an amp NOT YET BUILT would sound "****ty"?

Because it was an SET.

Can you give us the names of the last 10 SETs that you've listened to?

I could, but then I'd have to kill you.
Besides, one POS amp is enough, or are you telling me that there are SET
amps that can play at normal levels without massive distortion?

OK, how about even one SET that you have sampled? It would be nice to
know the associated gear (especially speakers) and what kind of music
you listened to. Quoting from any on-the-spot notes that you made
would be nice, but you can use your memory if you'd like. It would be
nice to hear what specifically bothered you about the sound.

BTW, are you telling me that if I listened to a single SS amp, like,
say a Phase Linear amp, I'd be able to condemn the whole species?
Because that's what you seem to be saying, that one can extrapolate
from a single example.


The only SET I ever heard was one that a friend had built from a kit. This
was over 12 years ago. At the time I compare it to a 40 WPC HK730, which
easily sounded better to me.

I guess, since you haven't bothered to listen to any commercial SETs,
that we can pretty much disregard your comments about how SETs sound.

This guy was a very big tube and LP advocate and had no use whatsoever fo
SS, and that's his perogative. It's simply not what I care about.

And that doesn't really even say anything about the quality of his
build, the kind of kit it was, the type of tubes that were used, etc.
In fact, you can't even say what kind of speakers were being used.

You seem to forget that it's about accuracy for me. Knowing that a device
is generating audible distortion automatically disqualifies it from being
considered for anything other than a doorstop/ room heater.

Ahhh, it's the "knowing". Sort of a placebo effect, eh?

It's bad enough that speakers have as much distortion as they do, I don't
want another device that would effectively double it. That's why I firmly
believe that the real high end that people ought to be pursuing is
loudspeakers. Nothing, absolutely nothing makes more improvement to an
audio system than upgrading speaker performance, either by tuning the room
passively or through active means, or some combination.

The single biggest producer of distortion in an audio system is coming from
the speakers and the only methods I'm aware of for changing that are going
to come from new materials, sensors, more drivers, or auto EQ built into the
speakers, ala the NHT's that were favorably reviewed in SP a while ago.
There's no point for me to bother with anything else, since it can't improve
the overall accuracy of the system.

Then you shouldn't comment on how good or bad they are, since you're
not willing to even bother evaluating them (SETs) in person.

Show me one reasonably priced (under $1000.00) SET amp that can produce 100+
watts and not have audible distortion, and I'll consider it for a listen.

Why would you need 100+ watts? What is it about those words that
defines hi-fi for you?

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:06:45 -0500, George M. Middius cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote:




Stewèd Pukerton said:

participation in [the Special Olympics] does not imply brain
damage - were you hoping to qualify just on that account?

For anybody who's unfamiliar with Stewie's routines, this is a coded
message that means he's just cracked open a bottle of whiskeeey.

I never touch any spirit with an 'e' in it.............
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

wrote in message
ink.net
"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:12:02 GMT,
wrote:
How would you know that an amp NOT YET BUILT would
sound "****ty"?

Because it was an SET.

Can you give us the names of the last 10 SETs that
you've listened to?

I could, but then I'd have to kill you.
Besides, one POS amp is enough, or are you telling me
that there are SET amps that can play at normal levels
without massive distortion?

I probably listened to at least 10 SETs at HE2005. The SET rooms at HE2005
were pretty much the same - there was an altar-like area between the
speakers that was occupied by a glowing SET. The glow of the tubes was
especially apparent. The glowing was almost as apparent as the gritty
sound.

I still remember walking into one room, glancing about and noticing the
glowing apparition on the floor. However I didn't hear the gritty sound of a
SET. I looked again and noticed that the tubes were in pairs. I had found
the Manley room and the tubed power amps were p-p, and probably even with
loop feedback.

"Arny Krueger" wrote


snip crossposted ********


I probably listened to at least 10 SETs at HE2005. The SET rooms at HE2005
were pretty much the same - there was an altar-like area between the
speakers that was occupied by a glowing SET. The glow of the tubes was
especially apparent. The glowing was almost as apparent as the gritty
sound.

I still remember walking into one room, glancing about and noticing the
glowing apparition on the floor. However I didn't hear the gritty sound of
a SET. I looked again and noticed that the tubes were in pairs. I had
found the Manley room and the tubed power amps were p-p, and probably even
with loop feedback.



Tell me Arny - why do I not believe a single word of that....???

On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:17:24 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:06:45 -0500, George M. Middius cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote:




Stewèd Pukerton said:

participation in [the Special Olympics] does not imply brain
damage - were you hoping to qualify just on that account?

For anybody who's unfamiliar with Stewie's routines, this is a coded
message that means he's just cracked open a bottle of whiskeeey.

I never touch any spirit with an 'e' in it.............

That's a shame because a great tequila is a pleasure to drink. This is
probably an old-world bias on your part. You're missing out on a great
pleasure.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:17:24 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:06:45 -0500, George M. Middius cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote:




Stewèd Pukerton said:

participation in [the Special Olympics] does not imply brain
damage - were you hoping to qualify just on that account?

For anybody who's unfamiliar with Stewie's routines, this is a coded
message that means he's just cracked open a bottle of whiskeeey.

I never touch any spirit with an 'e' in it.............

That's a shame because a great tequila is a pleasure to drink. This is
probably an old-world bias on your part. You're missing out on a great
pleasure.

Don't tell him that ... some are predicting another agave
shortage.

http://www.prophetsplace.com/agave.html

ScottW

On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 11:01:46 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:17:24 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 14:06:45 -0500, George M. Middius cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote:




Stewèd Pukerton said:

participation in [the Special Olympics] does not imply brain
damage - were you hoping to qualify just on that account?

For anybody who's unfamiliar with Stewie's routines, this is a coded
message that means he's just cracked open a bottle of whiskeeey.

I never touch any spirit with an 'e' in it.............

That's a shame because a great tequila is a pleasure to drink. This is
probably an old-world bias on your part. You're missing out on a great
pleasure.

Rats! I forgot tequila. :-(

Having worked in Tucson Arizona for a couple of years, I have a
certain notoriety back home for my deadly Margaritas. People happily
knock back a large beaker of that tasty refreshing citrus drink at a
summer barbie, and then can't understand why their legs don't work
properly anymore... :-)

OTOH, sorry, tequila on its own tastes disgusting, hence the salt and
lime ritual. As ever, YMMV.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering