"John Dawson" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi guys,

Just to let you all know the UK branch of the Audio Engineering Society
is holding a "fun day" at New Hall in Cambridge on the 8th April. Half
a dozen 50 minute sessions by industry experts include live vinyl disc
cutting on a Neumann lathe, a demo of true HD digital cinema, a seminar
on how to set up display screens properly and much more. There will be
mini exhibits from Meridian, dCS, and others and a Harman ICE concept
car.

See http://www.aes.org/sections/uk/2006c...cationday.html for
information, maps etc.


Tickled to see this:

"More record-cutting lathes are in use today than when CDs were launched -
surprising or incredible? Sean Davies, disc-cutting expert, will explain the
strengths and weaknesses of vinyl disc recording. and then make a
'direct-to-disc' recording of live musicians to show how good the medium can
be and why it is still popular."


But a little disconcerted to see this:

"Bob Stuart and his team will demonstrate 'Trifield', a technique to produce
a stable front image by playing stereo sources on three front speakers.
Listen to the comparison and see if you agree."


....kinda 'Mono with outriggers'?? - Like a bike for a kid who can't
select/set up the right kit to get a pin-sharp, central image with
stereo....???

(Not that mine is atm - due to two pairs of speakers crushed into a tiny
space, but it ain't that bad.....)


Anyway, would love to see both these demonstrations, but not the others.....

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:26:22 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"John Dawson" wrote in message
roups.com...
Hi guys,

Just to let you all know the UK branch of the Audio Engineering Society
is holding a "fun day" at New Hall in Cambridge on the 8th April. Half
a dozen 50 minute sessions by industry experts include live vinyl disc
cutting on a Neumann lathe, a demo of true HD digital cinema, a seminar
on how to set up display screens properly and much more. There will be
mini exhibits from Meridian, dCS, and others and a Harman ICE concept
car.

See http://www.aes.org/sections/uk/2006c...cationday.html for
information, maps etc.


Tickled to see this:

"More record-cutting lathes are in use today than when CDs were launched -
surprising or incredible? Sean Davies, disc-cutting expert, will explain the
strengths and weaknesses of vinyl disc recording. and then make a
'direct-to-disc' recording of live musicians to show how good the medium can
be and why it is still popular."


But a little disconcerted to see this:

"Bob Stuart and his team will demonstrate 'Trifield', a technique to produce
a stable front image by playing stereo sources on three front speakers.
Listen to the comparison and see if you agree."

...kinda 'Mono with outriggers'?? - Like a bike for a kid who can't
select/set up the right kit to get a pin-sharp, central image with
stereo....???

Nope, more like a return to the original text. Alan Blumlein (who knew
a bit about stereo!) always reckoned that three speakers were
necessary for best results.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:50:41 +0100, Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:26:22 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"John Dawson" wrote in message
groups.com...
Hi guys,

Just to let you all know the UK branch of the Audio Engineering Society
is holding a "fun day" at New Hall in Cambridge on the 8th April. Half
a dozen 50 minute sessions by industry experts include live vinyl disc
cutting on a Neumann lathe, a demo of true HD digital cinema, a seminar
on how to set up display screens properly and much more. There will be
mini exhibits from Meridian, dCS, and others and a Harman ICE concept
car.

See http://www.aes.org/sections/uk/2006c...cationday.html for
information, maps etc.


Tickled to see this:

"More record-cutting lathes are in use today than when CDs were launched -
surprising or incredible? Sean Davies, disc-cutting expert, will explain the
strengths and weaknesses of vinyl disc recording. and then make a
'direct-to-disc' recording of live musicians to show how good the medium can
be and why it is still popular."


But a little disconcerted to see this:

"Bob Stuart and his team will demonstrate 'Trifield', a technique to produce
a stable front image by playing stereo sources on three front speakers.
Listen to the comparison and see if you agree."

...kinda 'Mono with outriggers'?? - Like a bike for a kid who can't
select/set up the right kit to get a pin-sharp, central image with
stereo....???

Nope, more like a return to the original text. Alan Blumlein (who knew
a bit about stereo!) always reckoned that three speakers were
necessary for best results.

Trouble is, when you have a speaker in the middle, there is nowhere to
put your telly. OK, I have a "centre speaker" on top of the telly, but
frankly it sounds like crap.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:26:22 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


But a little disconcerted to see this:

"Bob Stuart and his team will demonstrate 'Trifield', a technique to
produce
a stable front image by playing stereo sources on three front speakers.
Listen to the comparison and see if you agree."

...kinda 'Mono with outriggers'?? - Like a bike for a kid who can't
select/set up the right kit to get a pin-sharp, central image with
stereo....???

Nope, more like a return to the original text. Alan Blumlein (who knew
a bit about stereo!) always reckoned that three speakers were
necessary for best results.



Yep, well aware, but my words still stand. FWIW, I have no problem at all
with decent Mono....

(Two ears, two mics, two speakers - too simple....???)

Hi,

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:26:22 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:
But a little disconcerted to see this:

"Bob Stuart and his team will demonstrate 'Trifield', a technique to produce
a stable front image by playing stereo sources on three front speakers.
Listen to the comparison and see if you agree."

...kinda 'Mono with outriggers'?? - Like a bike for a kid who can't
select/set up the right kit to get a pin-sharp, central image with
stereo....???

Nope, more like a return to the original text. Alan Blumlein (who knew
a bit about stereo!) always reckoned that three speakers were
necessary for best results.

True, and this was one of the reasons that he used the word
'plurity' in his patent applications for both speaker and microphone
arrangements. He was at EMI at the time, and that one word
confounded Decca's attempts to work around his patents
for ages, even twenty years after he filed them.

When I had a smaller listening room I ran my home cinema in a
"3.0" arrangement for a while, and it was ok - I'd much rather
have the centre channel than the rears, if it was a choice. It
could probably work well for music recorded in arrangements
like the Decca Tree, but I'm not so sure about multi-channel
rock recordings.

Somehow though I doubt we'll be seeing a mass market move
to three channel audio anytime soon! As Keith says, getting a
decent stereo image is just an exercise in determination and
setting things up right.

Regards,

Glenn.

"Glenn Booth" wrote


True, and this was one of the reasons that he used the word
'plurity' in his patent applications for both speaker and microphone
arrangements. He was at EMI at the time, and that one word
confounded Decca's attempts to work around his patents
for ages, even twenty years after he filed them.

When I had a smaller listening room I ran my home cinema in a
"3.0" arrangement for a while, and it was ok - I'd much rather
have the centre channel than the rears, if it was a choice.


I don't bother with a centre speaker and don't miss it at all - voices still
come 'straight from the mouths' with only a decent stereo pair in the front.
The trouble with centre speakers is there's really nowhere to put them and
if they aren't much cop they will destroy the overall sound quality on
anything other than speech as they tend to dominate. (I was actually told
that the centre gets to handle 90% of the sound in a typical surround
setup!!??)

Rears are *almost* a complete PITA (wires etc.) but there is the odd
occasion with movies when they do add to the 'ambience' and effects. Watched
'Flightplan' last night and there were moments even in that, that benefited
from the rears (airplane creaking etc.) and stuff like Saving Private Ryan
would be lost without it!!


Somehow though I doubt we'll be seeing a mass market move
to three channel audio anytime soon! As Keith says, getting a
decent stereo image is just an exercise in determination and
setting things up right.


Yes and, of course, certain items of certain types of kit will enable a
better central image than others....

(No names, no pack drill, no thumping of tubs.....!! ;-)

Hi,

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

I don't bother with a centre speaker and don't miss it at all - voices still
come 'straight from the mouths' with only a decent stereo pair in the front.
The trouble with centre speakers is there's really nowhere to put them

This has been a real bugbear. They look crap sat on top of the telly. I've
tried mine down low pointing up, then up high pointing down, and all
points in between. They just get in the way.

and if they aren't much cop they will destroy the overall sound quality on
anything other than speech as they tend to dominate.

Yep. My Kef centre is noticeably less 'capable' than the fronts, which use
the same driver, but a larger cabinet. It always sounds a bit nasal. Feeding
the 'centre' signal into one of the larger speakers that normally feed L or R
front makes a big difference, but I ain't using a floorstander as a centre
channel!

Rears are *almost* a complete PITA (wires etc.) but there is the odd
occasion with movies when they do add to the 'ambience' and effects. Watched
'Flightplan' last night and there were moments even in that, that benefited
from the rears (airplane creaking etc.) and stuff like Saving Private Ryan
would be lost without it!!

The one time I really got spooked by the rears was in "Das Boot". I started
to think there really might be water dripping down the walls. In a dark room
I started feeling claustrophobic. Very convincing, and one of the depth
charge scenes put a stain on the carpet (don't ask).

Yes and, of course, certain items of certain types of kit will enable a
better central image than others....

(No names, no pack drill, no thumping of tubs.....!! ;-)

Would that be thermionic tubs? ;-)

Anyway, it's the full surround job for me now - just bought a very
cheap projector on ebay, so no excuses! Wifey is now the only
problem, and that amounts to a QA exercise...

Her: Make it BIGGER.
Me: No, too grainy and pixelated. Anyway, it's already 80 inches.
Her: Don't care. It's a projector. Make it bigger. There's loads
of wall left that isn't moving.

Repeat ad nauseum. Never mind the quality, feel the width. I
will endeavour to educate her. Again.

Regards,

Glenn.

"Glenn Booth" wrote


The trouble with centre speakers is there's really nowhere to put them

This has been a real bugbear. They look crap sat on top of the telly. I've
tried mine down low pointing up, then up high pointing down, and all
points in between. They just get in the way.


Yep, on top of the telly is a mess and there's no room under with the
recorders and DVDPs!!



and if they aren't much cop they will destroy the overall sound quality
on anything other than speech as they tend to dominate.

Yep. My Kef centre is noticeably less 'capable' than the fronts, which use
the same driver, but a larger cabinet. It always sounds a bit nasal.
Feeding
the 'centre' signal into one of the larger speakers that normally feed L
or R
front makes a big difference, but I ain't using a floorstander as a centre
channel!


The two centres I did try (Boston and Bose) - were both very good, but they
simply ain't necessary. Tell your amp there's no centre and let the fronts
do the work!! Halfway through your first movie you will have forgotten about
the centre speaker!!



Rears are *almost* a complete PITA (wires etc.) but there is the odd
occasion with movies when they do add to the 'ambience' and effects.
Watched 'Flightplan' last night and there were moments even in that, that
benefited from the rears (airplane creaking etc.) and stuff like Saving
Private Ryan would be lost without it!!

The one time I really got spooked by the rears was in "Das Boot". I
started
to think there really might be water dripping down the walls. In a dark
room
I started feeling claustrophobic. Very convincing, and one of the depth
charge scenes put a stain on the carpet (don't ask).

:-)

Red wine?

Cracking good series/movie that - certainly the best recent submarine movie,
but funnily enough I thought the depth charge scenes were not too
convincing! From what I have learned (I ain't that old) they would have cut
the boat in half - going off as close as they did, much of the time!



Yes and, of course, certain items of certain types of kit will enable a
better central image than others....

(No names, no pack drill, no thumping of tubs.....!! ;-)

Would that be thermionic tubs? ;-)

:-)

I'm sayink nossing......



Anyway, it's the full surround job for me now - just bought a very
cheap projector on ebay, so no excuses! Wifey is now the only
problem, and that amounts to a QA exercise...

Her: Make it BIGGER.


I respect the courage you must have to repeat that in a public forum!!


Me: No, too grainy and pixelated. Anyway, it's already 80 inches.
Her: Don't care. It's a projector. Make it bigger. There's loads
of wall left that isn't moving.


Oh, OK - I see now! My apologies!! ;-)


Repeat ad nauseum. Never mind the quality, feel the width. I
will endeavour to educate her. Again.


Actually I'm with her - bigger beats better when it comes to a movie
screen!! :-)

OK, I think that's Herr Reubke done now - I think it's safe to go back in
and take the record off...!!

(See my reply to your argumentative namesake!! ;-)

On Sat, 1 Apr 2006 22:24:27 +0100, "Glenn Booth"
wrote:

Hi,

"Keith G" wrote in message
.. .

I don't bother with a centre speaker and don't miss it at all - voices still
come 'straight from the mouths' with only a decent stereo pair in the front.
The trouble with centre speakers is there's really nowhere to put them

This has been a real bugbear. They look crap sat on top of the telly. I've
tried mine down low pointing up, then up high pointing down, and all
points in between. They just get in the way.

and if they aren't much cop they will destroy the overall sound quality on
anything other than speech as they tend to dominate.

Yep. My Kef centre is noticeably less 'capable' than the fronts, which use
the same driver, but a larger cabinet. It always sounds a bit nasal. Feeding
the 'centre' signal into one of the larger speakers that normally feed L or R
front makes a big difference, but I ain't using a floorstander as a centre
channel!

It may seem like overkill, but given the amount of signal going to the
centre channel of a 5.1 soundtrack, there is logic to having a '6.1'
system with *two* centre speakers, which can then be placed close to
the sides of the TV, giving both additional power handling and a more
symmetrical appearance.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

It may seem like overkill, but given the amount of signal going to
the centre channel of a 5.1 soundtrack, there is logic to having a
'6.1' system with *two* centre speakers, which can then be placed
close to the sides of the TV, giving both additional power handling
and a more symmetrical appearance.

Finally got news access back, it all seemed to stop working...

If the system's set up correctly, and the speakers correctly matched for
level, tonal balance etc (so basically you're using the same make and
range of speakers across the front) you shouldn't notice a huge
difference between "normal" and "phantom" mode when sat in the sweet spot.

Setting the centre to "wide" (which in this case refers to frequency
response of course rather than aspect ratio) will generally result in a
reduction of what I generally refer to as "high bass", which is the LF
component that your main speakers handle until the sub takes over. Or
the kind of raucousness you get from your average ghetto blaster.
Unless, of course, you have a centre speaker the size of a coffin (seen
a few like that at hi-fi shows) which can produce earth-shattering bass
in its own right.

However, if you're not sat in the sweet spot, the centre makes a lot of
difference, and really improves the imaging. There's actually a centre
speaker fitted in my car at the top of the dash (and probably yours too,
I think the A3 has it as well as the A4) which is fed from the L+ and R-
front speaker terminals. As the amp in the head unit is normally
bridged, this will effectively give you a (L+R)-(L-R) signal. It's then
dropped by around 3.5dB so it doesn't cause a narrowing of the stereo
image. The result is subtly effective, vocals appear to come from the
centre of the dash rather than from the door, without resorting to
time-alignment style tricks.

The centre on my Arcam AVR-250 has a similar mode of operation in the
Music DSP mode, again, reduced by around 3.5dB to avoid narrowing
effects. And it does mean that vocals come from the centre wherever you
are in the room (as long as you're within the perimeter of the the
speakers of course).

As for 2 centres... back when I had my old Yamaha DSP-A592 (which had a
facility to connect 2 centre speakers) the manual recommended that if
you were planning to use 2 centres you should place one above and one
below the screen, NOT one either side. Otherwise you'd lose the whole
point of having a centre speaker in the first place, which is to have a
point source coming from the centre of the screen.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation