"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've just had a couple of enlightening but also depressing experiences.


snip bike stuff - not interested unless 350 single, 500 twin, 750 triple
or 1,000cc four in line...

**How about a 1,800cc twin?

http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/...p?intNewsID=29

Check out the bore size.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



As to the question of the reduction of 'price undercut' needed to allow
Chinese products to compete, I would say that, taking the one make
Shanling as a guideline, it's already started!! Economy of Scale in
production costs and the comparatively cheap labour will ensure the
Chinese product will remain viable for long enough to overcome remaining
prejudices until theie products can equla or supercede domestic Western
product, much like the Jap motorbikes from the 60s on.

**Indeed. Shadling make a CD player, which retails in Australia for around
US$3,200.00. The FOB price is around US$600.00. Someone is making *a lot* of
money on this puppy. And it ain't the factory.


Mind you, given that if you bang a stake into the ground and the Chinese
Peoples start to walk past it, it will be *never-ending* and factor in
that the Chinese Economy is growing fastest/biggest in the world, for us
manky Brits to believe the Chinese will even give a **** about the West in
(say) 5 years time is a symptom of the arrogance that is reducing us to
the level of 3rd rate banana republic!!

**Yep. In 20 years, Pommy-land, Australia and the US will be the cheap
labour for China and India. Hey, maybe we can man call centres and get our
back. :-)


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Andrew Jute mcCoy Crap Clipped except:
Thanks for the well-meant warning but I've done suspensions and
steering before, even wrote a book about it.

It never ends, does it. This rests on the same bookshelf as its tomes
on vehicle design, yacht design, and the many other creations of its
fevered imagination.

Once again, just imagine putting yourself or your loved one(s) on a
bicycle "designed" by this particular accretion of unsupported
fantasies. Accept as a given that it will perform *exactly* as well as
its amps....

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've just had a couple of enlightening but also depressing experiences.


snip bike stuff - not interested unless 350 single, 500 twin, 750 triple
or 1,000cc four in line...

**How about a 1,800cc twin?

http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/...p?intNewsID=29

Check out the bore size.


Hmm, in a amps = motorbikes analogy it'a bit 'Krell' innit? Must say I like
the 'digitally controlled SET' bit - I was doing the very same thing myself
last week!!

The analogy continues thus:

A (Brit) 350 single, like a SET amp is the sweetest handling, most
pleasurable ride you'll ever have in the right setting - ideal for leafy
lanes in the dappled sunshine or a winding, single-lane moorland roadway
where the next vehicle is an hour away, but it's never going to impress
anybody who uses the motorways a lot....

Your Rotel SS amps are like a modern 500 twin - a dependable workhorse which
will never offer the utmost in excitement but should be good for about 110
mph this day and age. It'll get you from A to B ahead of the crowd with the
greatest reliability, isn't to heavy to manoeuvre and it is the epitome of
convenience at an affordable price, but it won't be long before you want
summat that's got a bit more going for it...

The 750 triple I was thinking of is specifically the '74 Triumph Trident I
gave to my son. No analogy immediately springs to mind...

1,000 cc bikes are like the 'mid-fi, high-end' stuff that thinks it's a bit
special (MF? Cyrus? Arcam? Roksan?) but, due to the situation in which they
are mostly used, are often outperformed by a 500 twin in real terms - the
only obvious advantage of the bigger bike being the slightly lower throttle
setting that will be used most of the time...

Another analogy, but between Chinese SETs and Brit SS offerings this time
springs to mind - when I used to do a lot of shooting (game - summat I
regret, now) I preferred (and used) a 16 bore Spanish sidelock AYA
double-barrelled shotgun to the more common English 12 bore boxlocks. There
were three distinct advantages in my book, which I don't suppose could even
be guessed at by anyone here....??

(Interestingly, for clays and some game at times, I mostly used Brownings
which, I believe, were 'American' made by the Japs....?? Miroku?)

(Interestingly, for clays and some game at times, I mostly used Brownings
which, I believe, were 'American' made by the Japs....?? Miroku?)

http://www.browning.com/faq/detail.asp?ID=90

Where Browning makes their firearms.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

wrote in message
ups.com...
(Interestingly, for clays and some game at times, I mostly used Brownings
which, I believe, were 'American' made by the Japs....?? Miroku?)

http://www.browning.com/faq/detail.asp?ID=90

Where Browning makes their firearms.



Yes, that brings it back a bit (been a while)....

I had an A1 with a straight-hand stock like a Winchester rifle which looked
the part but wasn't too nice to use, a B2G (I think it was) which was very
fancy (tulip forend) and felt *entirely* Japanese (didn't like it) and an
old C3 with cylinder/improved choking which was so effective and so
lovely-looking a wealthy jeweller friend worried away at me until I let him
have it for an 'offer I couldn't refuse'.....!!

Keith G wrote:


"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've just had a couple of enlightening but also depressing experiences.


snip bike stuff - not interested unless 350 single, 500 twin, 750 triple
or 1,000cc four in line...

**How about a 1,800cc twin?

http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/...p?intNewsID=29

Check out the bore size.

When someone does the obvious and builds a V-twin around a pair of
R-985 cylinders let me know. Until then I'll stick with my BMW.



Hmm, in a amps = motorbikes analogy it'a bit 'Krell' innit? Must say I like
the 'digitally controlled SET' bit - I was doing the very same thing myself
last week!!

The analogy continues thus:

A (Brit) 350 single, like a SET amp is the sweetest handling, most
pleasurable ride you'll ever have in the right setting - ideal for leafy
lanes in the dappled sunshine or a winding, single-lane moorland roadway
where the next vehicle is an hour away, but it's never going to impress
anybody who uses the motorways a lot....

Singles are nuts.

Your Rotel SS amps are like a modern 500 twin - a dependable workhorse which
will never offer the utmost in excitement but should be good for about 110
mph this day and age. It'll get you from A to B ahead of the crowd with the
greatest reliability, isn't to heavy to manoeuvre and it is the epitome of
convenience at an affordable price, but it won't be long before you want
summat that's got a bit more going for it...

Most twins I see are harleys. 883 is the smallest.

The 750 triple I was thinking of is specifically the '74 Triumph Trident I
gave to my son. No analogy immediately springs to mind...

Three is a bad number of cylinders for a four stroke. Yhe only triple
worth a **** was the one built around a Saab car engine.

1,000 cc bikes are like the 'mid-fi, high-end' stuff that thinks it's a bit
special (MF? Cyrus? Arcam? Roksan?) but, due to the situation in which they
are mostly used, are often outperformed by a 500 twin in real terms - the
only obvious advantage of the bigger bike being the slightly lower throttle
setting that will be used most of the time...

Another analogy, but between Chinese SETs and Brit SS offerings this time
springs to mind - when I used to do a lot of shooting (game - summat I
regret, now) I preferred (and used) a 16 bore Spanish sidelock AYA
double-barrelled shotgun to the more common English 12 bore boxlocks. There
were three distinct advantages in my book, which I don't suppose could even
be guessed at by anyone here....??

(Interestingly, for clays and some game at times, I mostly used Brownings
which, I believe, were 'American' made by the Japs....?? Miroku?)

Most Brownings were Liege, Belgium. A few were made in
ultra-hoplophobic Japan, I think the Citori.

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message
oups.com...

Keith G wrote:



The analogy continues thus:

A (Brit) 350 single, like a SET amp is the sweetest handling, most
pleasurable ride you'll ever have in the right setting - ideal for leafy
lanes in the dappled sunshine or a winding, single-lane moorland roadway
where the next vehicle is an hour away, but it's never going to impress
anybody who uses the motorways a lot....

Singles are nuts.



Ah, never ridden a Velocette Venom then? Go see the 1961 entry he

http://www.velocetteowners.com/history/history.html

That's a *24 hour* 100mph *average* - anyone over in the US of Apple Pie
gotta Harley that'll hold together at that speed for that long? :-)



Your Rotel SS amps are like a modern 500 twin - a dependable workhorse
which
will never offer the utmost in excitement but should be good for about
110
mph this day and age. It'll get you from A to B ahead of the crowd with
the
greatest reliability, isn't to heavy to manoeuvre and it is the epitome
of
convenience at an affordable price, but it won't be long before you want
summat that's got a bit more going for it...

Most twins I see are harleys. 883 is the smallest.


And nifty little buggers for round town....



The 750 triple I was thinking of is specifically the '74 Triumph Trident
I
gave to my son. No analogy immediately springs to mind...

Three is a bad number of cylinders for a four stroke. Yhe only triple
worth a **** was the one built around a Saab car engine.


You might be right, my son's blown the Trident up.

Can't say I'm *too* sad about it - every year he gets older, he does seem to
be getting a little bit wiser and it'll fix some time in the future....???



(Interestingly, for clays and some game at times, I mostly used Brownings
which, I believe, were 'American' made by the Japs....?? Miroku?)

Most Brownings were Liege, Belgium. A few were made in
ultra-hoplophobic Japan, I think the Citori.


Unless I disremember - Mirokus (and I thought some of the later Brownings)
were built on a factory ship that sailed continuously from here to there and
only docked to load/offload and change production personnel
periodically....??

"Keith G" wrote


You might be right, my son's blown the Trident up.

Can't say I'm *too* sad about it - every year he gets older, he does seem
to be getting a little bit wiser and it'll fix some time in the
future....???


WTF, here he is (a few years back) with another very nice little *single*!!

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Andrew27.JPG

:-)

Bret Ludwig wrote:
Good output transformers in any substanntial quantity can be
made for under a hundred dollars each,

The actual cost depends on a lot of factors. Not all
audio transformers can be made on automated
equipment.

I bet Ned Carlson has maybe $20
in his Dyna outputs.

That'd be nice. But with US costs for steel, copper
and labor, only the C354 choke and the PAS power transformer
are even in that ballpark. Audio transformers, not
a chance.


--
Ned Carlson
SW side of Chicago, USA
www.tubezone.net

Ned Carlson wrote:

Bret Ludwig wrote:
Good output transformers in any substanntial quantity can be
made for under a hundred dollars each,

The actual cost depends on a lot of factors. Not all
audio transformers can be made on automated
equipment.

I bet Ned Carlson has maybe $20
in his Dyna outputs.

That'd be nice. But with US costs for steel, copper
and labor, only the C354 choke and the PAS power transformer
are even in that ballpark. Audio transformers, not
a chance.

Work backwards from the Hammond price to find out the economies of
production in a western country.

Just imagine if Hammond used a little better design. Cost would be maybe
$10 more
but the better interleaving and wasteless secondaries would be worth it.

Patrick Turner.



--
Ned Carlson
SW side of Chicago, USA
www.tubezone.net