What do people think of R3 sound quality right now (10:05 BST, 15 July
2006)? I'm listening to a Mozart violin concerto and getting (i) on DAB
noticeable "screeching" distortion on loud bits, (ii) on Freeview much
better but still some distortion of the same type, (iii) OK on FM apart
from the slight extra background (audible on headphones). I suppose (i)
is the disgusting recent reduction to 160 kb/s, but (ii) is worrying as I
thought the bit-rates were much higher on Freeview.

Patrick Wallace
__________________________________________________ ______________________

In article , Pat Wallace
wrote:
What do people think of R3 sound quality right now (10:05 BST, 15 July
2006)? I'm listening to a Mozart violin concerto and getting (i) on DAB
noticeable "screeching" distortion on loud bits, (ii) on Freeview much
better but still some distortion of the same type, (iii) OK on FM apart
from the slight extra background (audible on headphones).

Can't comment on R3 at present as I'm not listening to it. However this
morning I had a brief listen to a recording of the First Night I made from
DAB, and I wasn't particularly happy with the results.

I am hoping to record the 'repeat' on Monday afternoon, and then spend some
time comparing the DAB/DTTV/FM versions. Until then I'll reserve judgement
to some extent, but what I've heard thus far does not seem encouraging.

I suppose (i) is the disgusting recent reduction to 160 kb/s, but (ii)
is worrying as I thought the bit-rates were much higher on Freeview.

Alas, my DTTV tuner does not display the bitrates used. Can someone check
and see what they are now using for R3 and other BBC stations? It used to
be higher than on DAB, but as with DAB these things may be subject to
changes without any notice. The results when I watched the First Night on
DTTV BBC4 last night sounded quite good to me, though.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:38:16 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


Alas, my DTTV tuner does not display the bitrates used. Can someone check
and see what they are now using for R3 and other BBC stations?

My nebula card shows BBC R1-4 at 192kbps, R6 & 7 at 160kbps, R5 at
96kbps and WS at 64kbps.

Bill

In article , Bill Taylor
wrote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:38:16 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:


Alas, my DTTV tuner does not display the bitrates used. Can someone
check and see what they are now using for R3 and other BBC stations?

My nebula card shows BBC R1-4 at 192kbps, R6 & 7 at 160kbps, R5 at
96kbps and WS at 64kbps.

Thanks for the above info.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

On 15 Jul, wrote:
In article , Pat Wallace
wrote:
What do people think of R3 sound quality right now (10:05 BST, 15 July
2006)? I'm listening to a Mozart violin concerto and getting (i) on
DAB noticeable "screeching" distortion on loud bits, (ii) on Freeview
much better but still some distortion of the same type, (iii) OK on FM
apart from the slight extra background (audible on headphones).

Can't comment on R3 at present as I'm not listening to it. However this
morning I had a brief listen to a recording of the First Night I made
from DAB, and I wasn't particularly happy with the results.

I am hoping to record the 'repeat' on Monday afternoon, and then spend
some time comparing the DAB/DTTV/FM versions. Until then I'll reserve
judgement to some extent, but what I've heard thus far does not seem
encouraging.

I've now had a chance to do some more comparisons. I recorded the first
half of the 'First Night' live from DTTV BBC4TV onto a DVD as well as
recorded it onto CD from DAB R3. I've just listened again to these
recordings, and also listened/recorder the first half from the 'repeat'
this afternoon. (Shostakovitch 5th currently playing as I type.)

FWIW I currently feel that the DAB 160kb/s version sounds quite poor. The
masses strings, etc, seem to have a 'sandpaper roughness' which I don't
hear with the BBC4 or FM versions. At times this seems to spread across the
stereo image like some sort of modulation 'noise'.

So my impression thus far is that the drop from 192kb/s to 160kb/s has made
a quite noticable change for the worse in the sound quality of R3 on DAB.
I'm currently listening to the DAB rebroadcast of the 5th and even as
'background music' the anharmonic sandpaper effect is at times quite
noticable. Since where I sit to type gives no stereo image, it just sounds
like anharmonic intermodulation distortion being added to the mid/hf
spectrum. Is this what other people notice?

The puzzle is the change in sound quality is so marked. Classic FM does not
sound this bad to me, despite using 160kb/s. Previously, I'd have said DAB
R3 sounded better than Classic FM, but to my ears it now sounds noticably
worse! What do others think of this (ignoring level compression on Classic
FM if possible)?

Alas, listening to FM this afternoon simply reminded me of the reasons I
have tended to prefer DTTV R3. Level compression. Background interference
of various kinds. Noticable noise floor in the quiet passaged (despite the
level compression.) Being a very hot afternoon we are getting long distance
background interference on FM as has often been the case in the past.

The overall sound quality if these snags are ignored remains quite good on
FM, though. Hence it now seems to be a choice of which types of audible
problems are least annoying...

Oh well, at least I have many recordings, etc, from the past, so am not
exactly starved for excellent performances which have fine sound.

I am now wondering: What else on the relevant DAB mux has the 'lost' 32kb/s
been devoted to? So far as I know, the BBC haven't given any reasons (or
notice) of the change. Indeed, it seems to have been done with so much
'stealth' and with such weird timing - just before the Proms - that I can't
help wondering if it is simply a mistake and no-one at the BBC has even
noticed as yet!

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
:
snip
:
FWIW I currently feel that the DAB 160kb/s version sounds quite poor. The
masses strings, etc, seem to have a 'sandpaper roughness' which I don't
hear with the BBC4 or FM versions. At times this seems to spread across the
stereo image like some sort of modulation 'noise'.

So my impression thus far is that the drop from 192kb/s to 160kb/s has made
a quite noticable change for the worse in the sound quality of R3 on DAB.
I'm currently listening to the DAB rebroadcast of the 5th and even as
'background music' the anharmonic sandpaper effect is at times quite
noticable. Since where I sit to type gives no stereo image, it just sounds
like anharmonic intermodulation distortion being added to the mid/hf
spectrum. Is this what other people notice?

Yes.

The puzzle is the change in sound quality is so marked.

I concur.

-------

I've put in a complaint to the BBC and await the standard reply.

I am about to attend my first Prom of the season. If the Beeb have put on
the usual DAB display in the foyer I may have to be physically restrained.
If they have, perhaps we can get them under the Trade Descriptions Act
1968.


Patrick Wallace
__________________________________________________ ___________________________

I am now wondering: What else on the relevant DAB mux has the 'lost'
32kb/s
been devoted to? So far as I know, the BBC haven't given any reasons (or
notice) of the change. Indeed, it seems to have been done with so much
'stealth' and with such weird timing - just before the Proms - that I
can't
help wondering if it is simply a mistake and no-one at the BBC has even
noticed as yet!

Slainte,

Jim

I believe that the 32kb/s has been given to Radio 5Live Sports Xtra. It now
broadcasts a continuous trailer 24/7, as opposed to only broadcasting when
it actually had a program to broadcast. Apparently, lots of people were
scanning with their DAB radios for it, but not finding it as it wasn't
always broadcasting.

I think 5L sports extra has its bit rate upped when it actually has a real
program to broadcast, but I'm not sure where this is pinched from.

Cheers, JL

I am now wondering: What else on the relevant DAB mux has the 'lost' 32kb/s
been devoted to?

Gone to something to do with Radio 5 IIRC

So far as I know, the BBC haven't given any reasons (or
notice) of the change.

Why should she?, dontcha know auntie Beeb knows best!.

Indeed, it seems to have been done with so much
'stealth' and with such weird timing - just before the Proms - that I can't
help wondering if it is simply a mistake and no-one at the BBC has even
noticed as yet!

Modern management?..


Slainte,

Jim


Jim,


You'll have to sub to the BBC discussion boards and/or alt.radio.digital where
the almighty feck up of UK DAB by Auntie BBC is revealed to all and
sundrie!.....

--
Tony Sayer