Hi

I hope that this has not already been posted. Apologies if this is the
case. The Friends of Radio 3 have written to various BBC managers to
complain about the reduction in bit rate from the normal 192kbps to
160kbps. You can read the news item at
http://www.for3.org/second/BBC_R3_news.html#poorDAB

Regards

David

In article , David Houpt
writes
Hi

I hope that this has not already been posted. Apologies if this is the
case. The Friends of Radio 3 have written to various BBC managers to
complain about the reduction in bit rate from the normal 192kbps to
160kbps. You can read the news item at
http://www.for3.org/second/BBC_R3_news.html#poorDAB

Regards

David


You might as well give up with T-DAB the BBC has been overrun with marketeer's
and management types.. so its buggered;(.

What you'd be far better off campaigning for is high bitrate Satellite
transmissions, the Germans and French are capable of these so the BBC "should"
be able to manage.

And while we're at it Radio 3.5 .. in order to remove the "worthy" speech
items off what's for me a "Music" channel.

Suppose Radio 2.75 for Jazz and other similar not mainstream stuff also.

Thats what you ought be doing IMHO.

Mind you FM is still good.. so lets also preserve that eh?.......
--
Tony Sayer

In article , tony sayer



Mind you FM is still good.. so lets also preserve that eh?.......

Alas, I now find the level compression on FM R3 during the day to be
irritatingly obvious for orchestral music. And despite a decent tuner, I am
in a location where interference of various types tends to occur. So
although I have 'fallen back' to FM, I don't find FM completely
satisfactory.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes
In article , tony sayer



Mind you FM is still good.. so lets also preserve that eh?.......

Alas, I now find the level compression on FM R3 during the day to be
irritatingly

Suppose as I haven't retired as yet.. Don't tend to notice this too
much;!..

obvious for orchestral music. And despite a decent tuner, I am
in a location where interference of various types tends to occur.

What sort of interference?, not pirate I presume. Pity the poor sods in
London.. interference on FM and now ****e on DAB.

Bout time we had decent unprocessed 256 K or more on Satellite)

So
although I have 'fallen back' to FM, I don't find FM completely
satisfactory.

Last nites prom was enough to blow you away at the end of Belsahzzers
feast. And the FM copy on the timer wasn't that bad either tho the organ
at the end was earth shattering there, 'tho missed out on the radio..

Excellent and well worth the torrid heat there!!!


Slainte,

Jim


--
Tony Sayer

In article , tony sayer

wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes


What sort of interference?, not pirate I presume.

Mix of pops, clicks, buzzes, etc. Combined with bursts of modulation of the
background noise level and breakthough from 'foreign' stations.
Particularly in the summer when we seem to get stations from many miles
away as co-channel interference with R3 FM. Most of the time this is at a
low level, so you wouldn't notice it on a station like R4. But on a R3
concert it can be quite obvious.

The signal level indicated does not vary noticably, so it isn't so much due
to signal fading as to unwanted 'contributions' from elsewhere. Sometimes
you hear the speaking on the interference, but more often you just head the
background noise level modulating with periods of 3-10 seconds, typically.

Some of it might come from Leuchars AFB or Biggles as he flys overhead,
contributing to global warming. :-)

We are located up a hill with a clear view well across the North Sea. So it
seems that we get quite strong signals from over the water.

Most of the time it is OK. But the problems arise often enough that there
is a fair chance that at some point in a concert in the summer, a problem
with be audible if I listen to a R3 concert. In general, it might go
unnoticed for something like a string quartet, but it shows up on
orchestral items.


Pity the poor sods in London.. interference on FM and now ****e on DAB.

I get far more interference on FM here that I did when I lived in East
London. One of the things I welcomed about DAB as it has shown almost zero
interference effects here. Signal level about 12dB above the top of the
scale on the tuner.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:29:36 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

Pity the poor sods in London.. interference on FM and now ****e on DAB.

I get far more interference on FM here that I did when I lived in East
London. One of the things I welcomed about DAB as it has shown almost zero
interference effects here. Signal level about 12dB above the top of the
scale on the tuner.

Slainte,

Jim

I live in London, and I get full strength signals on all services -
maybe to do with living up on top of the hill at Hampstead Heath. On
analogue TV I have to use an attenuator on the antenna lead or I get a
bit of intermod.

Multipath on FM was a bit of a problem until I put up a Yagi, but that
is fine now. I never hear any interference, although I can go hunting
for the pirates.

In the battle between FM and DAB, I am torn. Like Jim, I hate the
dynamic compression on FM; it makes me feel a bit seasick, but I also
find listening to DAB a strain over a period of more than a few
minutes. I really only use it for stations that don't appear on FM.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes
In article , tony sayer

wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes


What sort of interference?, not pirate I presume.

Mix of pops, clicks, buzzes, etc. Combined with bursts of modulation of the
background noise level and breakthough from 'foreign' stations.
Particularly in the summer when we seem to get stations from many miles
away as co-channel interference with R3 FM. Most of the time this is at a
low level, so you wouldn't notice it on a station like R4. But on a R3
concert it can be quite obvious.

The signal level indicated does not vary noticably, so it isn't so much due
to signal fading as to unwanted 'contributions' from elsewhere. Sometimes
you hear the speaking on the interference, but more often you just head the
background noise level modulating with periods of 3-10 seconds, typically.

Some of it might come from Leuchars AFB or Biggles as he flys overhead,
contributing to global warming. :-)

We are located up a hill with a clear view well across the North Sea. So it
seems that we get quite strong signals from over the water.

Most of the time it is OK. But the problems arise often enough that there
is a fair chance that at some point in a concert in the summer, a problem
with be audible if I listen to a R3 concert. In general, it might go
unnoticed for something like a string quartet, but it shows up on
orchestral items.



Presume you do have a directional aerial and a good grade, CT100 or
similar, of co-ax feeder?.

Course your local TX might be re-transmiting what it receives if its an
RBR one 'tho if a main station it should be on PCM, and its very
possible that the BBC don't even know if theres a problem.

Which one was it again Jim?.

Course what the sods ought do it to put the rates up on Satellite when
all those problems would be history apart from a very odd bit of rain
fade;!....

Pity the poor sods in London.. interference on FM and now ****e on DAB.

I get far more interference on FM here that I did when I lived in East
London.

Well thats changed!. I think everyone's awaiting for the first SFN DAB
pirate who no doubt will use very high bit rates;!!!


One of the things I welcomed about DAB as it has shown almost zero
interference effects here. Signal level about 12dB above the top of the
scale on the tuner.


It does suffer from co channel as some on the south coast will tell you
'jus cos its dab doesn't mean its not interfereable with!...
Slainte,

Jim


--
Tony Sayer

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , tony sayer



Mind you FM is still good.. so lets also preserve that eh?.......

Alas, I now find the level compression on FM R3 during the day to be
irritatingly obvious for orchestral music. And despite a decent
tuner, I am
in a location where interference of various types tends to occur. So
although I have 'fallen back' to FM, I don't find FM completely
satisfactory.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html


Forgive me Jim but I thought it was the other way around? Optimod and
whatever during rushhour (0730-0930 and 1700-1900 weekdays) but
uncompressed at other times. Que?


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

In article , harrogate3
wrote:

Forgive me Jim but I thought it was the other way around? Optimod and
whatever during rushhour (0730-0930 and 1700-1900 weekdays) but
uncompressed at other times. Que?

Well, the measurements I've made show clear level compression on R3 FM
during the day. e.g. during the lunchtime and afternoon programmes. It was
also quite audible when I listened to/recorded the afternoon repeat of the
'First Night' that went out between 2-4 the Monday following the First
Night.

I have not checked, and I don't listen at all times of day. However my
impression is that R3 use automated level compression on FM essentially all
day, and only remove it (perhaps) during the evening. It may be used to a
greater degree during 'drivetimes', though.

I have also had the impression that even in the evenings, they level
compress to some extent, but this may be more skill-controlled and hence
not so noticable or distracting.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes
In article , harrogate3
wrote:

Forgive me Jim but I thought it was the other way around? Optimod and
whatever during rushhour (0730-0930 and 1700-1900 weekdays) but
uncompressed at other times. Que?

Well, the measurements I've made show clear level compression on R3 FM
during the day. e.g. during the lunchtime and afternoon programmes. It was
also quite audible when I listened to/recorded the afternoon repeat of the
'First Night' that went out between 2-4 the Monday following the First
Night.

I have not checked, and I don't listen at all times of day. However my
impression is that R3 use automated level compression on FM essentially all
day, and only remove it (perhaps) during the evening. It may be used to a
greater degree during 'drivetimes', though.

I have also had the impression that even in the evenings, they level
compress to some extent, but this may be more skill-controlled and hence
not so noticable or distracting.


I reckon that this is a bit of a difficult one for a broadcaster as they in
order to serve their audience have to take into account typical listening
conditions for the majority of people during the day and I'd bet that there
aren't that many serious listeners who sit down and listen to the audio
systems during the daytime hours, but there are a whole lot more who are in
car and have the tranny on for background stuff in the day, so who should they
serve for best effect?.

Of course what they ought do is make a very high bitrate and un-processed
source available on satellite for such serious users, and use compression on
DABble which doesn't matter anymore as its no longer a serious audio medium.

Even a small broadcaster like Radio Jackie in south London is capable of doing
this, they have a processed output and their "finesse" stream which is
directly off the desk!.

If they can manage that,, I'm sure auntie BBC can......

--
Tony Sayer