Friends of Radio 3
 

Hi

I hope that this has not already been posted. Apologies if this is the
case. The Friends of Radio 3 have written to various BBC managers to
complain about the reduction in bit rate from the normal 192kbps to
160kbps. You can read the news item at
http://www.for3.org/second/BBC_R3_news.html#poorDAB

Regards

David

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , David Houpt
writes
Hi

I hope that this has not already been posted. Apologies if this is the
case. The Friends of Radio 3 have written to various BBC managers to
complain about the reduction in bit rate from the normal 192kbps to
160kbps. You can read the news item at
http://www.for3.org/second/BBC_R3_news.html#poorDAB

Regards

David


You might as well give up with T-DAB the BBC has been overrun with marketeer's
and management types.. so its buggered;(.

What you'd be far better off campaigning for is high bitrate Satellite
transmissions, the Germans and French are capable of these so the BBC "should"
be able to manage.

And while we're at it Radio 3.5 .. in order to remove the "worthy" speech
items off what's for me a "Music" channel.

Suppose Radio 2.75 for Jazz and other similar not mainstream stuff also.

Thats what you ought be doing IMHO.

Mind you FM is still good.. so lets also preserve that eh?.......
--
Tony Sayer

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , tony sayer



Mind you FM is still good.. so lets also preserve that eh?.......

Alas, I now find the level compression on FM R3 during the day to be
irritatingly obvious for orchestral music. And despite a decent tuner, I am
in a location where interference of various types tends to occur. So
although I have 'fallen back' to FM, I don't find FM completely
satisfactory.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes
In article , tony sayer



Mind you FM is still good.. so lets also preserve that eh?.......

Alas, I now find the level compression on FM R3 during the day to be
irritatingly

Suppose as I haven't retired as yet.. Don't tend to notice this too
much;!..

obvious for orchestral music. And despite a decent tuner, I am
in a location where interference of various types tends to occur.

What sort of interference?, not pirate I presume. Pity the poor sods in
London.. interference on FM and now ****e on DAB.

Bout time we had decent unprocessed 256 K or more on Satellite:))

So
although I have 'fallen back' to FM, I don't find FM completely
satisfactory.

Last nites prom was enough to blow you away at the end of Belsahzzers
feast. And the FM copy on the timer wasn't that bad either tho the organ
at the end was earth shattering there, 'tho missed out on the radio..

Excellent and well worth the torrid heat there!!!


Slainte,

Jim


--
Tony Sayer

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , tony sayer

wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes


What sort of interference?, not pirate I presume.

Mix of pops, clicks, buzzes, etc. Combined with bursts of modulation of the
background noise level and breakthough from 'foreign' stations.
Particularly in the summer when we seem to get stations from many miles
away as co-channel interference with R3 FM. Most of the time this is at a
low level, so you wouldn't notice it on a station like R4. But on a R3
concert it can be quite obvious.

The signal level indicated does not vary noticably, so it isn't so much due
to signal fading as to unwanted 'contributions' from elsewhere. Sometimes
you hear the speaking on the interference, but more often you just head the
background noise level modulating with periods of 3-10 seconds, typically.

Some of it might come from Leuchars AFB or Biggles as he flys overhead,
contributing to global warming. :-)

We are located up a hill with a clear view well across the North Sea. So it
seems that we get quite strong signals from over the water.

Most of the time it is OK. But the problems arise often enough that there
is a fair chance that at some point in a concert in the summer, a problem
with be audible if I listen to a R3 concert. In general, it might go
unnoticed for something like a string quartet, but it shows up on
orchestral items.


Pity the poor sods in London.. interference on FM and now ****e on DAB.

I get far more interference on FM here that I did when I lived in East
London. One of the things I welcomed about DAB as it has shown almost zero
interference effects here. Signal level about 12dB above the top of the
scale on the tuner.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Friends of Radio 3
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , tony sayer



Mind you FM is still good.. so lets also preserve that eh?.......

Alas, I now find the level compression on FM R3 during the day to be
irritatingly obvious for orchestral music. And despite a decent
tuner, I am
in a location where interference of various types tends to occur. So
although I have 'fallen back' to FM, I don't find FM completely
satisfactory.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html


Forgive me Jim but I thought it was the other way around? Optimod and
whatever during rushhour (0730-0930 and 1700-1900 weekdays) but
uncompressed at other times. Que?


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

Friends of Radio 3
 

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:29:36 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

Pity the poor sods in London.. interference on FM and now ****e on DAB.

I get far more interference on FM here that I did when I lived in East
London. One of the things I welcomed about DAB as it has shown almost zero
interference effects here. Signal level about 12dB above the top of the
scale on the tuner.

Slainte,

Jim

I live in London, and I get full strength signals on all services -
maybe to do with living up on top of the hill at Hampstead Heath. On
analogue TV I have to use an attenuator on the antenna lead or I get a
bit of intermod.

Multipath on FM was a bit of a problem until I put up a Yagi, but that
is fine now. I never hear any interference, although I can go hunting
for the pirates.

In the battle between FM and DAB, I am torn. Like Jim, I hate the
dynamic compression on FM; it makes me feel a bit seasick, but I also
find listening to DAB a strain over a period of more than a few
minutes. I really only use it for stations that don't appear on FM.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , harrogate3
wrote:

Forgive me Jim but I thought it was the other way around? Optimod and
whatever during rushhour (0730-0930 and 1700-1900 weekdays) but
uncompressed at other times. Que?

Well, the measurements I've made show clear level compression on R3 FM
during the day. e.g. during the lunchtime and afternoon programmes. It was
also quite audible when I listened to/recorded the afternoon repeat of the
'First Night' that went out between 2-4 the Monday following the First
Night.

I have not checked, and I don't listen at all times of day. However my
impression is that R3 use automated level compression on FM essentially all
day, and only remove it (perhaps) during the evening. It may be used to a
greater degree during 'drivetimes', though.

I have also had the impression that even in the evenings, they level
compress to some extent, but this may be more skill-controlled and hence
not so noticable or distracting.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes
In article , tony sayer

wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes


What sort of interference?, not pirate I presume.

Mix of pops, clicks, buzzes, etc. Combined with bursts of modulation of the
background noise level and breakthough from 'foreign' stations.
Particularly in the summer when we seem to get stations from many miles
away as co-channel interference with R3 FM. Most of the time this is at a
low level, so you wouldn't notice it on a station like R4. But on a R3
concert it can be quite obvious.

The signal level indicated does not vary noticably, so it isn't so much due
to signal fading as to unwanted 'contributions' from elsewhere. Sometimes
you hear the speaking on the interference, but more often you just head the
background noise level modulating with periods of 3-10 seconds, typically.

Some of it might come from Leuchars AFB or Biggles as he flys overhead,
contributing to global warming. :-)

We are located up a hill with a clear view well across the North Sea. So it
seems that we get quite strong signals from over the water.

Most of the time it is OK. But the problems arise often enough that there
is a fair chance that at some point in a concert in the summer, a problem
with be audible if I listen to a R3 concert. In general, it might go
unnoticed for something like a string quartet, but it shows up on
orchestral items.



Presume you do have a directional aerial and a good grade, CT100 or
similar, of co-ax feeder?.

Course your local TX might be re-transmiting what it receives if its an
RBR one 'tho if a main station it should be on PCM, and its very
possible that the BBC don't even know if theres a problem.

Which one was it again Jim?.

Course what the sods ought do it to put the rates up on Satellite when
all those problems would be history apart from a very odd bit of rain
fade;!....

Pity the poor sods in London.. interference on FM and now ****e on DAB.

I get far more interference on FM here that I did when I lived in East
London.

Well thats changed!. I think everyone's awaiting for the first SFN DAB
pirate who no doubt will use very high bit rates;!!!


One of the things I welcomed about DAB as it has shown almost zero
interference effects here. Signal level about 12dB above the top of the
scale on the tuner.


It does suffer from co channel as some on the south coast will tell you
'jus cos its dab doesn't mean its not interfereable with!...
Slainte,

Jim


--
Tony Sayer

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , tony sayer

wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes
[snip]

Presume you do have a directional aerial and a good grade, CT100 or
similar, of co-ax feeder?.

I use three different loft dipoles for the three different FM tuners in
daily use. They typically give around 600-800 microV at their downlead
ends. The cables vary but are all either CT100 or an equivalent in terms of
performance from the days before the term CT100 was used (so far as I
recall.) The cable runs are only about 3-4 metres in each case, and are
continuous from antenna to the plug in the RX socket.

FWIW yesterday I lugged the CT7000 around and checked the levels on each
antenna output. So the above are correct assuming the (old) calibration
for the tuner is OK.

Course your local TX might be re-transmiting what it receives if its an
RBR one 'tho if a main station it should be on PCM, and its very
possible that the BBC don't even know if theres a problem.

Which one was it again Jim?.

Forfar. I can't recall the ERP, but I think it isn't one of the higher
powers. However it gives higher levels here than the alternatives. The
problem I think is that although we are up a hill, the main parts of Fife
'behind' us are higher and tend to block signals from inland. We might get
more from the other transmitters if the topology were favourable. Alas,
Fife isn't the Fens... :-/

TBH Having started thinking about this again I am starting to wonder if the
real problem is the CT7000. Although an excellent design, it is now
reaching its 30th birthday, and it suffers from poor internal contacts due
to the widespread use of tiny 'pin-socket' connectors between the internal
modules. It is about time I tried something else for the main hifi system.
Now I've started thinking about this, I haven't noticed so much in the way
of problems even on a Quad FM4 which - in principle - has nothing like as
good an RF performance as the CT7000...

I noticed in a review in a recent mag that one tuner (Creek IIRC) reached
70dB SNR full-quieting with 400microV in, whereas the CT7000 needs about
800 microV for this. IIRC Angus Mckenzie, although enthusiastic about the
CT7000 thought that the front end gain/noise figure wasn't as good as
it could be, even years ago, but loved it for the excellent selectivity
and low distortion, etc.

The interference tends to go un-noticed with something like a string
quartet or piano recital, but can show up on proms. Alas, the level
compression on FM I now find more noticable than some years ago.
partly due to it being more severe, partly I guess due to becoming
accustomed to other sources that don't have it. Thus in practice,
with orchestral music it is the level compression I find distracting
more often these days. DAB was much better in this respect.

One of the things I welcomed about DAB as it has shown almost zero
interference effects here. Signal level about 12dB above the top of the
scale on the tuner.


It does suffer from co channel as some on the south coast will tell you
'jus cos its dab doesn't mean its not interfereable with!...

I'd agree. However here it has shown no particular signs of the sound being
interfered with by anyone - apart from the BBC themselves! :-/

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html