The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

flipper wrote:

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:59:56 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:

Ruud Broens wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
:
: flipper wrote:
:
: The current mirror is not an 'active load', per see, as it does not
: regulate anything (as in a constant current source) but merely
: reflects the triode current into a second path.
:
: Only if you believe the current mirror action is 100% perfect.
:
: Graham

Hmm. so, where were you, when there were over 40 posts, a
link to several circuits 5 months ago on this idea ??

Probably not paying attention. If there were lots of Joot and Middius posts
involved I may simply not have bothered looking.

The only way the anode voltage can have a changing influence
by electrostatically influencing the space charge around the cathode,
is when it ^actually^ changes, eh ?
so, lock the anode voltage, he, presto, no fb, no Miller, because
the inherent fb mechanism is not used

Also true in cascode circuits.

Only if you believe the cascode is 100% perfect.

chuckle

I'd thought of that too but was curious to see what your response was.

Sooo.... Where do you see the imperfections ?

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Eeyore wrote:
" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
" wrote:

You must not be so parochial. Think the wide web, think the world wide
training of audio professionals. They are all indebted to the great
teaching resource about negative feedback this thread represents.

I dare say you reckon you're fabulously better placed to comment on audio than a mere professional. Would you also get your next-door neighbour to perform surgery on you in view of this revalation ?

Graham

To clarify: My sarcastic comment one half of which you quoted referred
to this contribution (and its like):: "Now, which bothers you more?
That as a sockpuppet, McCoy's fingers are
so far up your fundament that you are tasting them from the back of
your throat, or that you are only its second-favorite?"
Or do you think it is a "comment from a professional" for us peasants?
My desire to keep the filth out of RAO did not refer to you.
Ludovic Mirabel

It was the intimation that audio professionals had somehow to be brainwashed to 'believe' in NFB. I've done the circuit theory of its application at college. It's no more good or bad than V=IR !

Graham

You'll get no argument from me. I know my limitations.
Ludovic M

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

On 19 Aug 2006 12:19:33 -0700, "
wrote:

To illustrate let me answer your rhetorical question: "Would you also get
your next-door neighbour to perform surgery on you in view of this
revalation ?". The answer is :Yes, given no other choice I might go for
a commonsensical neighbour rather than some "surgeons" I had seen. A
degree is a licence to practice , not a guarantee of good practice. In
medicine, unfortunately, it may be a licence to kill. As one of my
Univ. teachers used to say: "With your degree you're given a little
private cemetery and you can set out to fill it for the rest of your
professional life"

Now you've got me worried, Ludo. I'll just have to try not to need
surgery for the rest of my life. :-)

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

This isn't about SET, Keith. That scum try to drain the glee from
everyone's hobby, not just the SETties. Ludovic is right, this is about
education, specifically the scum's claim that they are here to educate,
which I have just demonstrated is hollow. Read the first post in this
thread again: I show that the minute serious work is being done in
which there is not the slightest chance for them to conduct a flame
war, to bully someone, they absent themselves.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review


Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote


Turn now to a recent thread on RAT, "Negative Feedback in Triodes: The
Logical and Experimental Proof".
http://groups.google.ie/group/rec.au...f8d8ed 263a35
If you don't care about the technicalities, you don't need to read it.
All you need to know is that in this thread I prove beyond a shadow of
a doubt, with a replicable experiment, that triodes sound so good, and
are capable of being used in zero negative feedback circuits,
***because the negative feedback is built into the triode***. To hammer
home the truth, I demonstrate that a pentode is a triode with extra
screens to subvert the native NFB of a triode. To nail that truth down
so that the dumbest of the graduate engineers (1) cannot misread it,
Patrick Turner then fills out the argument with an incontestible set of
observable numbers.


Thank you for including ukra in your observations André, but I would point
out that there are only 1.1 SETies here (me regularly and an occasional
poster who is a SETmeister but never really mentions them) and that we have
the situation well under control. The only real 'antiSET' opinion here is
from outsiders (not UK residents) who blow in from time to time to grace us
with their wisdom and put us right.

Needless to say, their comments are taken in the spirit in which they are
given and then disregarded *entirely*...

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Andre Jute wrote:

This isn't about SET

Uh ?

According to you, *EVERYTHING* is about SET you weasle worded POS !!!

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
This isn't about SET, Keith. That scum try to drain the glee from
everyone's hobby, not just the SETties. Ludovic is right, this is about
education, specifically the scum's claim that they are here to educate,
which I have just demonstrated is hollow. Read the first post in this
thread again: I show that the minute serious work is being done in
which there is not the slightest chance for them to conduct a flame
war, to bully someone, they absent themselves.


Sure, the same sort of thing used to be the norm in ukra - self-styled
'experts' routinely hosing the fun out of the hobby for the less 'technical'
types. The upshot is that many people shrugged and left the group,
presumably to go and lead normal lives.....???

If were not for a few dogged flaky (or unbulliable) types there would only
be a handful of 'experts' left here, sitting in silence, patiently waiting
for another fly to buzz in....

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"flipper" wrote in message
...
: On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 02:32:37 +0100, Eeyore
: wrote:
:
:
:
: flipper wrote:
:
: On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:59:56 +0100, Eeyore
: wrote:
:
: Ruud Broens wrote:
:
: "Eeyore" wrote in
message
: ...
: :
: : flipper wrote:
: :
: : The current mirror is not an 'active load', per see, as it does not
: : regulate anything (as in a constant current source) but merely
: : reflects the triode current into a second path.
: :
: : Only if you believe the current mirror action is 100% perfect.
: :
: : Graham
:
: Hmm. so, where were you, when there were over 40 posts, a
: link to several circuits 5 months ago on this idea ??
:
: Probably not paying attention. If there were lots of Joot and Middius posts
: involved I may simply not have bothered looking.
:
: The only way the anode voltage can have a changing influence
: by electrostatically influencing the space charge around the cathode,
: is when it ^actually^ changes, eh ?
: so, lock the anode voltage, he, presto, no fb, no Miller, because
: the inherent fb mechanism is not used
:
: Also true in cascode circuits.
:
: Only if you believe the cascode is 100% perfect.
:
: chuckle
:
: I'd thought of that too but was curious to see what your response was.
:
: Of course you were. LOL
:
:
: Sooo.... Where do you see the imperfections ?
:
: Everywhere. Nothing is perfect.
:
:
: Graham

...iridium comes close, though :-)

on the current mirror 'loaded' tube idea:
the PL83 is a good tube to experiment with -
for one thing, it only costs 2 euro's or less,
it's a penthode with external G3 grid pin, not internally connected to the
cathode

for another, you can use it in many configurations:
triode connected, 125Vak, 35 mA gives some 14 mA/V conversion,
with a max 2Vtt in
for a voltage gain of several hundred, just depending on the used
R and voltage reference (eg. a -200 V supply)

you could reintroduce fb by getting a suitable negative
voltage to G3 for a high Z fb point

and use it as a penthode, anode voltage well below G2
possibly interesting for guitar use

or combine any of these ideas :-)

(the N309 =PL83 datasheet has both triode curves and the G3
voltage influence in graphs)

Rudy

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

paul packer wrote:
On 19 Aug 2006 12:19:33 -0700, "
wrote:

To illustrate let me answer your rhetorical question: "Would you also get
your next-door neighbour to perform surgery on you in view of this
revalation ?". The answer is :Yes, given no other choice I might go for
a commonsensical neighbour rather than some "surgeons" I had seen. A
degree is a licence to practice , not a guarantee of good practice. In
medicine, unfortunately, it may be a licence to kill. As one of my
Univ. teachers used to say: "With your degree you're given a little
private cemetery and you can set out to fill it for the rest of your
professional life"

Now you've got me worried, Ludo. I'll just have to try not to need
surgery for the rest of my life. :-)
---------------------------------------------
Paul says:
Now you've got me worried, Ludo. I'll just have to try not to need
surgery for the rest of my life. :-)

Excellent plan. I tried to stick to it myself. But as the poet said:
"The best laid plans of mice and men..." I had my share of
anaesthetics.
A hint... I tried to pick a surgeon that my colleagues would pick for
themselves.
Even better: that HIS colleagues (surgeons) would pick for themselves.
Ludovic Mirabel

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
"This isn't about SET, Keith. That scum try to drain the glee from
everyone's hobby, not just the SETties. Ludovic is right, this is about
education, specifically the scum's claim that they are here to educate,
which I have just demonstrated is hollow. Read the first post in this
thread again: I show that the minute serious work is being done in
which there is not the slightest chance for them to conduct a flame
war, to bully someone, they absent themselves."


Sure, the same sort of thing used to be the norm in ukra - self-styled
'experts' routinely hosing the fun out of the hobby for the less 'technical'
types. The upshot is that many people shrugged and left the group,
presumably to go and lead normal lives.....???

If were not for a few dogged flaky (or unbulliable) types there would only
be a handful of 'experts' left here, sitting in silence, patiently waiting
for another fly to buzz in....

That's a really sad-making state of affairs. -- AJ

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...

Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
"This isn't about SET, Keith. That scum try to drain the glee from
everyone's hobby, not just the SETties. Ludovic is right, this is about
education, specifically the scum's claim that they are here to educate,
which I have just demonstrated is hollow. Read the first post in this
thread again: I show that the minute serious work is being done in
which there is not the slightest chance for them to conduct a flame
war, to bully someone, they absent themselves."


Sure, the same sort of thing used to be the norm in ukra - self-styled
'experts' routinely hosing the fun out of the hobby for the less
'technical'
types. The upshot is that many people shrugged and left the group,
presumably to go and lead normal lives.....???

If were not for a few dogged flaky (or unbulliable) types there would
only
be a handful of 'experts' left here, sitting in silence, patiently
waiting
for another fly to buzz in....

That's a really sad-making state of affairs. -- AJ



It is a bit - now go see my 'horny' post for a bit of a lift!! :-)