Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

In article , Eeyore
wrote:


Laurence Payne wrote:


Don't we know how to make a transparent DAC yet?

We know how to make ones that measure so well that they must surely be
sonically blameless yet certain ppl insist they differ still.

We may also know how to make them so that, in a suitably controlled
comparison listening test, those listening might find they may be unable to
tell the difference between an original signal, and one passed through a
ADC-DAC pairing - provided they only have the sounds to use as a basis for
their decision, and the ADC-DAC are designed and compared with due care.

But of course, some DACs may be made so as to alter the results in
specific ways. Hence someone might then prefer this to a result
indistinguishable from the original prior to ADC conversion. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

In article . com,
Andy
Evans wrote:

The advantage of a tube stage is that the output with DC on it can be fed
directly into the grid of the tube, and the DC included in the biasing.

Are you claiming this is impossible for non-tube stages?

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

There is precious litle 'modern' about any valve circuit. I learnt on
them btw.

I've no doubt you know valves from ( ?50s, 60s?, 70s?), but you'd be
very surprised at how much things have changed. Not the function of the
triode itself, which is well known, but the support circuitry is now
quite complex - cascode active loads, constant current sinks etc. - a
whole cuisine of modern ss devices and traditional stuff like glow
tubes. It really is "nouvelle cuisine" if you pardon the expression.
We're not talking Mullard circuits with EF86s and ECC83s any more.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

Does Mozilla normally put the quoting arrows on the rhs instead of the
left ?

Mozilla means as much to me as King Kong.

Or are you simply choosing to be perverse ? You would have considerably
greater
credibility if you adhered to Usenet norms.

As an ex musician I'm so used to being an outsider that credibility -
in terms of fitting in with the norm and conventional behaviour - is a
bit of a Fata Morgana. If I'd wanted credibility I'd have become a bank
manager.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

Why do you expect me to describe sound in words - why not go and listen
to a variety of tube output stages then you can find out for yourself.

You mean you have no answer to offer ?

No, I sincerely mean that's the best answer.

So, do tell me. In your opinion how does the tube stage influence the
sound exactly ? Is that too tricky ?

You really want me to say "it sounds transparent with faithful timbre
to instruments and delicate nuance in the treble which is particularly
remarkable on brushwork on cymbals"? Surely not - you have to hear this
kind of thing with your own ears.

I suspect you want me to give a technical explanation, which I have to
a certain extent - the output, DC included, goes straight to the grid
of the triode, which can be resistor, active device, choke or
transformer loaded, or in the case of a balanced output can go to a
diff pair with CCS, transformer, parafeed etc etc. After that you have
a reasonably small coupling cap (or transformer) followed by a stepped
attenuator or TVC. These are all widely used topologies and considered
by many to sound excellent. Tube DACs are on the increase, but again,
you'd have to listen to them to satisfy your own ears about the sound.
I can't do that for you with any amount of adjectives.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
ups.com...
Does Mozilla normally put the quoting arrows on the rhs instead of the
left ?

Mozilla means as much to me as King Kong.



OK, let me help here - Mozilla is the cheese used to make pizzas, King Kong
is the Chinese province used to make *British* hifi equipment....

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Andy Evans wrote:

Listening will only tell you what *you* think of it, i.e. subjective
evaluation.

Exactly. That's how most people evaluate products.

Which is fine as far as it goes. Do you expect everyone's listening
preference to be
identical though ? There lies the limitation !


That is no reliable measure of 'goodness' whatever as easily can be
seen from
those who think SET tube amps are great despite shocking failings wrt
precision
and linearity. Graham

Many SET amps sound very good.

So some say. They also produce oodles of intermodulation products which
are most
unmusical. This will easily be revealed by playing 'complex' music, yet
they will
tend to sound excellent on a single instrument, or say a quartet.


please learn to quote properly btw

please learn to be more flexible and stop demanding that other people
obey your own views.

Please pull your head out of your arse !



Interesting to see that, sooner or later, all of you clowns who just don't
*get it* with valves have to result to guttersnipe phraseology....

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...


Andy Evans wrote:


Eeyore wrote
!
Precisision and linearity can be measured scientifically and
objectively. The remainder are in the ear and brain of the listener.

So? The purpose of the DAC is to listen to it.

Listening will only tell you what *you* think of it, i.e. subjective
evaluation.
That is no reliable measure of 'goodness' whatever as easily can be seen
from
those who think SET tube amps are great despite shocking failings wrt
precision
and linearity.


'Shocking failings'....???

(I love it when you Denial Boys start to talk dirty.....!! :-)

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Eeyore" wrote


I've spent some time in rec.audio.tubes to try and establish what this is
all about.
It's quite clear that the 'toobies' believe that added colouration from
vacuum tubes
equals 'higher fidelity' ( because they like the sound ).


Fidelity? What's that? Do you somehow manage to *not* use speakers...??

I think you're confusing valvie's claims of greater realism and naturalness
with valves with so-called *measured* accuracy....???


What they are confusing this with is their preference for an intentionally
flawed but
entirely pleasnt and relatively benign form of distortion. Nothing wrong
with their
listening preference but the presentation of this as inherently superior
is utterly
bogus.


Another one who expects people to agree their preference is inherently
*inferior*....???

Have this one on me - a valve amp (SET in paticular) is *****e* for playing
MP3s when you're out jogging......

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
What they are confusing this with is their preference for an
intentionally flawed but
entirely pleasnt and relatively benign form of distortion. Nothing
wrong with their
listening preference but the presentation of this as inherently
superior is utterly
bogus.

The idea that valves are simply "added distortion" and nothing else
could only be made by somebody with a) very little knowledge of modern
valve circuits and how they sound or b) somebody with cloth ears.



My suspicion is that a lot of people with strong views on valve kit is that
they haven't actually ever *heard* any......