Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in
message
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 16:42:49 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:

There is precious litle 'modern' about any valve
circuit. I learnt on them btw.

I've no doubt you know valves from ( ?50s, 60s?, 70s?),
but you'd be very surprised at how much things have
changed.

There has been no change whatever. Tube technology
peaked in the early 50s.

Not the function of the
triode itself, which is well known, but the support
circuitry is now quite complex - cascode active loads,
constant current sinks etc. - a whole cuisine of modern
ss devices and traditional stuff like glow tubes. It
really is "nouvelle cuisine" if you pardon the
expression. We're not talking Mullard circuits with
EF86s and ECC83s any more.

Indeed, toobists now use semiconductors to help cure the
inherent flaws of thermionic devices.


Well, make your mind up! Either valve circuits have
changed or they haven't.

No, the proper term for the use of semiconductors to help cure some of the
inherent flaws of terminonic devices is "hybrid". There has been some
advance in the design of hybrid circuits since the 1950s.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Eeyore"
wrote
in message
...


Andy Evans wrote:



which we know from a litany of posts about valve
equipment. No, I'm speaking about instrumental timbre
which appears to be more faithful rather than less. I
can only ask people posting on this subject to hear
this for themselves, since neither scientific method
nor adjectives will substitute for the actual sound
itself.

Since musical timbre entirely *depends* on rich
harmonics to sound good, it's
hardly surpising then that a toob will 'flatter' them is
it ?

More from the 'It's ****e but at least it's *accurate*!'
school of thinking?

Accurate:

Gold in, gold out
Crap in, crap out

Inaccurate:

Gold in, crap out
Crap in, crappier out


What do you people play recorded music for - to be
entertained and pleased

Yeah, and there's a ton of music in this world that does not need to be
wallpapered to sound good.

or sit there with a notepad and
write down what defects you *think* you can hear....??

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


You've got more faith with some of these 'hot under the
collar' types than I have Andy - I take a lot of what
they say with a pinch of salt (large one). Most of 'em
have never heard a valve amp and some of the others have
only heard some old *legacy* struggler at best and seem
to forget what some of the transistor equipment from the
70s could sound like.....

And some of us jsut lately spent three days at a well-known high end audio
show, listening to bunches and bunches of this crap. Did I say that it was
crap?



What crap - legacy valve amps or 70s transistor equipment?

Or are you saying there were a *lot* of new valve amps there? If there were
it would tell us something - your not liking them means nothing to me,
almost certainly nothing to the manufacturers or even the rest of the world
probably....?? ;-)

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote


snip ********


What do you people play recorded music for - to be
entertained and pleased

Yeah, and there's a ton of music in this world that does not need to be
wallpapered to sound good.

or sit there with a notepad and
write down what defects you *think* you can hear....??

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.



Yeah, right - I post a quick and dirty recording, you come on here and tell
me how many times it clipped....

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

Yeah, right - I post a quick and dirty recording, you come on here and
tell
me how many times it clipped....

You have to be patient with Arny - he's going to Night School to learn
how to communicate. Not sure how he's doing, but it's a start.

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

Yeah, right - I post a quick and dirty recording, you come on here and
tell
me how many times it clipped....

You have to be patient with Arny - he's going to Night School to learn
how to communicate. Not sure how he's doing, but it's a start.




Never known a guy who *protests* so much - goes to a 'high end audio fair'
to hate the kit, comes on here to disagree with everything thing he
sees....???

(I suspect he goes to the library to rip the last page out of all the
novels.....!! ;-)

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in
message
On Sat, 09 Sep 2006 16:42:49 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:

There is precious litle 'modern' about any valve
circuit. I learnt on them btw.

I've no doubt you know valves from ( ?50s, 60s?, 70s?),
but you'd be very surprised at how much things have
changed.

There has been no change whatever. Tube technology
peaked in the early 50s.

Not the function of the
triode itself, which is well known, but the support
circuitry is now quite complex - cascode active loads,
constant current sinks etc. - a whole cuisine of modern
ss devices and traditional stuff like glow tubes. It
really is "nouvelle cuisine" if you pardon the
expression. We're not talking Mullard circuits with
EF86s and ECC83s any more.

Indeed, toobists now use semiconductors to help cure the
inherent flaws of thermionic devices.


Well, make your mind up! Either valve circuits have
changed or they haven't.

No, the proper term for the use of semiconductors to help cure some of the
inherent flaws of terminonic devices is "hybrid". There has been some
advance in the design of hybrid circuits since the 1950s.

Nor is the mixed use of semiconductors and thermionics in electronic equipment
especially new either !

Graham

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Keith G" wrote
"Eeyore" wrote
Andy Evans wrote:

which we know from a litany of posts about valve
equipment. No, I'm speaking about instrumental timbre
which appears to be more faithful rather than less. I
can only ask people posting on this subject to hear
this for themselves, since neither scientific method
nor adjectives will substitute for the actual sound
itself.

Since musical timbre entirely *depends* on rich
harmonics to sound good, it's
hardly surpising then that a toob will 'flatter' them is
it ?

More from the 'It's ****e but at least it's *accurate*!'
school of thinking?

Accurate:

Gold in, gold out
Crap in, crap out

Inaccurate:

Gold in, crap out
Crap in, crappier out

What do you people play recorded music for - to be
entertained and pleased

Yeah, and there's a ton of music in this world that does not need to be
wallpapered to sound good.

or sit there with a notepad and
write down what defects you *think* you can hear....??

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

I really sometimes wonder what the audiophool nuts reckon audio professionals do
for a living ?

Maybe they missed the fact that it isn't audiophools who actually make the
recordings, mix them down, master them and press them ? Only then do the
terminally clueless get a chance to think they can somehow make it better than
the original, which may have passed through a thousand well-designed op-amp
stages on its way to its destination !

Graham

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

Keith G wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


You've got more faith with some of these 'hot under the
collar' types than I have Andy - I take a lot of what
they say with a pinch of salt (large one). Most of 'em
have never heard a valve amp and some of the others have
only heard some old *legacy* struggler at best and seem
to forget what some of the transistor equipment from the
70s could sound like.....

And some of us jsut lately spent three days at a well-known high end audio
show, listening to bunches and bunches of this crap. Did I say that it was
crap?

What crap - legacy valve amps

'Legacy' valve amps are currently being manufactured.


or 70s transistor equipment?

70s transistor equipment was last manufactured in then ummm.... errrrr... 70s !


Or are you saying there were a *lot* of new valve amps there? If there were
it would tell us something - your not liking them means nothing to me,
almost certainly nothing to the manufacturers or even the rest of the world
probably....?? ;-)

There is essentially no 'new' tube design possible due to the serious
fundamental limitations of the devices. Any significant advances terminated in
the 50s.

Graham

Apogee mini dac or Benchmark DAC1
 

Keith G wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote

snip ********

What do you people play recorded music for - to be
entertained and pleased

Yeah, and there's a ton of music in this world that does not need to be
wallpapered to sound good.

or sit there with a notepad and
write down what defects you *think* you can hear....??

That seems to be what you tube bigots do.

Yeah, right - I post a quick and dirty recording, you come on here and tell
me how many times it clipped....

No he didn't.

Graham