Uncopyrightable wrote:
Have just upgraded to a Pioneer VSX1016 and Mordant Short 90X's

An considering going to bi-wiring, or should it be more expensive 2 core
wire. want to spend around £20.00 per metre, too much? not enough? plus
banana clips, but I have never used them before, do they fit into both
amp and speaker or are they different sizes for either end? checked
manual for amp and cannot find the size of the output terminals for
plugs. also do you need to solder the clips?
One other thing, the VSX1016 has phase adjustment, so I 'think' that
means I do not have to have the same length for each of the front set,
so might save £'s there (1x1m 1x2m 1x3m)

Any recommendations on the wire? site links for reputable suppliers.
Sorry its a lot of questions.
Un.

I must say you'll only get one side of the speaker cable arguement
here, people can't be arsed to deal with all the flames they'd get if
they recommend anything other than cheap stuff available in a tip nr
your local builders.

BTW - to all the people who say "recording studios don't use expensive
cable"
90% of studios playback sounds terrible compared to a half decent
domestic HIFI , and most studios use terrible amps and speakers - so
that's no recommendation.

I'm not saying you should spend £20m (£5m is what I'd spend) but if
you want a balanced view then also look elsewhere..

"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

Uncopyrightable wrote:
Have just upgraded to a Pioneer VSX1016 and Mordant Short 90X's

An considering going to bi-wiring, or should it be more expensive 2 core
wire. want to spend around £20.00 per metre, too much? not enough? plus
banana clips, but I have never used them before, do they fit into both
amp and speaker or are they different sizes for either end? checked
manual for amp and cannot find the size of the output terminals for
plugs. also do you need to solder the clips?
One other thing, the VSX1016 has phase adjustment, so I 'think' that
means I do not have to have the same length for each of the front set,
so might save £'s there (1x1m 1x2m 1x3m)

Any recommendations on the wire? site links for reputable suppliers.
Sorry its a lot of questions.
Un.

I must say you'll only get one side of the speaker cable arguement
here, people can't be arsed to deal with all the flames they'd get if
they recommend anything other than cheap stuff available in a tip nr
your local builders.



That's not entirely correct - I'm sure no-one here much gives a damn what
some people want to pay for their cables, what starts the trouble is when
claims are made for the cables which seem never to be satisfactorily proved.



snip 'most studios' stuff..??


I'm not saying you should spend £20m (£5m is what I'd spend) but if
you want a balanced view then also look elsewhere..


No, I'll give you balanced view - see these two pairs of speakers:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Lowther04.JPG

If you look closely, down by the phono stage, you will see a blue/silver
cable an an orange one - one is silver plated OFC copper (Carpower
Monacor???) and goes to one pair of speakers, the other is Black & Decker
mains flex (hedgetrimmer extension lead) and goes to the other pair. They
have been swapped to and fro no end of times - I have never noticed any
difference.

My view? If you can afford £1000 cables and like them, then go for them and
ignore the critics, but best not make claims here that you aren't
prepared/able to substantiate - how hard (or unfair) is that....???

EOT - I don't *do* cable stuff.....!! ;-)

Tim wrote:

BTW - to all the people who say "recording studios don't use expensive
cable"
90% of studios playback sounds terrible compared to a half decent
domestic HIFI , and most studios use terrible amps and speakers - so
that's no recommendation.

So, are their cables expensive or not, and what has that got to do with them
having crap amps and speakers?


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

Glenn Richards wrote:

Andy Hewitt wrote:

Will you two lovebirds go somewhere private to play with your
fallacies?

Why, is it painful to read a discussion that doesn't contain snobbish
or insulting comments?


Obviously. Nothing a quick *plonk* *plonk* wouldn't solve. Except it's
quite entertaining.

Don't worry, it's only the uk.rec.audio clique. You won't get any
sensible discussion from them, only mindless insults to anyone who
doesn't agree with their narrow minded views.

Thanks Glenn. That's the first time I've ever been accused of being in a clique.
Now I'm in it, I can honestly say that there is no clique except in the opinion
of the outsiders.

You could easily demonstrate your cable differences to us, if they existed.
But of course if there was no difference you would claim that the effect was
masked by the a/d conversion in your sound card. If you want to try, I'm sure
we could agree a valid test method.

--
Eiron

No good deed ever goes unpunished.

"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

90% of studios playback sounds terrible compared to a half decent
domestic HIFI , and most studios use terrible amps and speakers - so
that's no recommendation.

I use small professional mixing studio monitors and dedicated amp in my home
Hi-Fi setup. These speakers are very detailed and very clear. I have used
very few speaker systems over the years (domestic Hi-Fi speakers) that come
anywhere near my monitors and associated amp on most of the music I like to
play. In fact it is the case that I am quite happy with what I have got and
am not interested in chasing anything else.

Admittedly, my experience with small professional studio monitors is limited
to what I have, however, if my experience is anything to go by your
statement is incorrect with respect to "most studios use terrible amps and
speakers" as the speakers and amp I have are not considered to be anything
special.

I am sure there are people on this group who are professional audio/studio
people who also have "half decent domestic HIFI", and who are more qualified
to make statements re their own evaluation of domestic and professional
grades of audio reproduction equipment. What are you perceptions?

Tim wrote:

Uncopyrightable wrote:
Have just upgraded to a Pioneer VSX1016 and Mordant Short 90X's

An considering going to bi-wiring, or should it be more expensive 2 core
wire. want to spend around £20.00 per metre, too much? not enough? plus
banana clips, but I have never used them before, do they fit into both
amp and speaker or are they different sizes for either end? checked
manual for amp and cannot find the size of the output terminals for
plugs. also do you need to solder the clips?
One other thing, the VSX1016 has phase adjustment, so I 'think' that
means I do not have to have the same length for each of the front set,
so might save £'s there (1x1m 1x2m 1x3m)

Any recommendations on the wire? site links for reputable suppliers.
Sorry its a lot of questions.

I must say you'll only get one side of the speaker cable arguement
here, people can't be arsed to deal with all the flames they'd get if
they recommend anything other than cheap stuff available in a tip nr
your local builders.

BTW - to all the people who say "recording studios don't use expensive
cable" 90% of studios playback sounds terrible compared to a half decent
domestic HIFI , and most studios use terrible amps and speakers - so
that's no recommendation.

Your experience of 'studios' must be very low-end if you can believe that !


I'm not saying you should spend £20m (£5m is what I'd spend) but if
you want a balanced view then also look elsewhere..

Unbalanced would be more like it.

What is it with you ppl who want to believe in the alleged 'magical properties'
of just one piece of wire in the entire recording / reproduction chain ?

Printed circuit boards aren't made with 'magic copper' for example but then you
can't change that. It's only because *you* can change 'that bit of wire' and
believe it makes such a huge difference that this nonsense continues to exist.

Graham

Wally wrote:

Tim wrote:

BTW - to all the people who say "recording studios don't use expensive
cable"
90% of studios playback sounds terrible compared to a half decent
domestic HIFI , and most studios use terrible amps and speakers - so
that's no recommendation.

So, are their cables expensive or not, and what has that got to do with them
having crap amps and speakers?

A couple of studios I know use ATC kit. It sounds good enough to me. Here are
some of their users.
http://www.atc.gb.net/client_list.html

Tim might care to peruse their crappy terrible-sounding **** speakers.

These guys are good too.
http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/index2.html

BTW Tim, an NS10 isn't a monitoring speaker.

Graham

Eiron wrote:

Glenn Richards wrote:
Andy Hewitt wrote:

Will you two lovebirds go somewhere private to play with your
fallacies?

Why, is it painful to read a discussion that doesn't contain snobbish
or insulting comments?

Obviously. Nothing a quick *plonk* *plonk* wouldn't solve. Except it's
quite entertaining.

Don't worry, it's only the uk.rec.audio clique. You won't get any
sensible discussion from them, only mindless insults to anyone who
doesn't agree with their narrow minded views.

Thanks Glenn. That's the first time I've ever been accused of being in a clique.
Now I'm in it, I can honestly say that there is no clique except in the opinion
of the outsiders.

You could easily demonstrate your cable differences to us, if they existed.
But of course if there was no difference you would claim that the effect was
masked by the a/d conversion in your sound card. If you want to try, I'm sure
we could agree a valid test method.

When challenged to a fair test, the audiophools normally back down.

Graham

APR wrote:

"Tim" wrote

90% of studios playback sounds terrible compared to a half decent
domestic HIFI , and most studios use terrible amps and speakers - so
that's no recommendation.

I use small professional mixing studio monitors and dedicated amp in my home
Hi-Fi setup. These speakers are very detailed and very clear. I have used
very few speaker systems over the years (domestic Hi-Fi speakers) that come
anywhere near my monitors and associated amp on most of the music I like to
play. In fact it is the case that I am quite happy with what I have got and
am not interested in chasing anything else.

Admittedly, my experience with small professional studio monitors is limited
to what I have, however, if my experience is anything to go by your
statement is incorrect with respect to "most studios use terrible amps and
speakers" as the speakers and amp I have are not considered to be anything
special.

I am sure there are people on this group who are professional audio/studio
people who also have "half decent domestic HIFI", and who are more qualified
to make statements re their own evaluation of domestic and professional
grades of audio reproduction equipment. What are you perceptions?

One thing that may confuse the casual listener is that studio monitors aren't
meant to 'flatter' music, they're meant to be like a critical lens on it, so
they'll show up a poor recording. That's their raison d'etre.

This may explain why he thinks hi-fi speakers are better, since _they_ are
indeed designed to flatter any recording rather than to be very accurate for the
most part.

Graham

"Eeyore"

One thing that may confuse the casual listener is that studio monitors
aren't
meant to 'flatter' music, they're meant to be like a critical lens on it,
so
they'll show up a poor recording. That's their raison d'etre.


** Studio monitor speakers are required to do three main things:

1. Play very LOUD all day long and for years on end.

2. Be almost unbustable, no matter what horrible abuse is dished out to
them.

3. Draw the engineer's attention to any extraneous noises and signal
quality defects that would render a recording unsaleable.

Popular studio monitor speakers like Tannoy and JBL are very far from being
accurate reproducers - but they do all the above.



This may explain why he thinks hi-fi speakers are better, since _they_ are
indeed designed to flatter any recording rather than to be very accurate
for the
most part.


** What utter ********.

Any hi-fi speakers worth that title are more accurate reproducers than
typical studio monitors.

Monitoring an audio signal while recording it is an entirely different
activity from listening to the final result for pleasure.

So much so, that some studios have a separate listening room for the
atter - equipped with speakers like Quad ESL63s.




........ Phil