Keith G wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rob wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Rob wrote:
I haven't noticed many remarks that state in absolute terms that
'vinyl
is better than CD'. I read most of the remarks as 'I prefer the
sound
produced from vinyl'. So perhaps it isn't quite as simple as you
pair
believe ... :-)

Just look at this from our resident ayatollah - Mr G...

From: Keith G
Subject: Vinyl to CD on a PC
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 11:10
Newsgroups: uk.rec.audio

Try all it likes, CD will never beat a good LP for a sense of
*realism*.....


Mmm. I think you misunderstand. That statement doesn't say anything
close to 'vinyl is better than CD' in absolute terms. Perhaps you do
understand, but you can find a better example?

Contrary to what some may believe, measurements to me are just a useful
tool to analyse why and where. At the end of the day, though, with
acoustic music - or speech - I want realism. Which vinyl simply can't
come
close to in comparison to good digital.


And yet you have never done a bias controled listening test using SOTA
lp playback gear and SOTA vinyl to verify this claim.



**** all this 'controlled listening test' horse**** - normal listening is
the best way to enjoy LPs.....

I agree and it is the best way to enjoy CDs. However for all Plowman's
objectivist horse**** on the subject of LPs v. CDs he has never
followed the mantra and done such tests. For the record (no pun
intended) I have. My preferences are not a result of bias when it comes
to LPs and CDs.



Consider this travesty - 50's Jazz on a CD......??

(Doesn't bear thinking about, does it?)

I already pointed out some specific examples of that travesty. The
meter readers seemed utterly ans completely disinterested when I
started talking about specific examples of terrible sounding CDs that
are trumped by great sounding LPs of the same title. It seems quite
obvious that there is little interest in sound quality amoung the meter
readers when it comes to playing great music.


Let's keep it *real*.....


I'm tryin. Check out what Plowman did when I mentioned the new Dylan
album. Maybe he doesn't get Dylan so he doesn't care that his new CD
sucks cock sonically. Maybe music is more of a trivial artifact of
audio to him than a focal point. Next month Yes Fragile will be
released on CD by MoFi and on LP by Analog Productions. That will make
for an interesting shoot out. Meter readers need not concern
themselves, Music is involved.



Scott

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Geoff wrote:
If we are talking about actual commercial CDs few of todays releases
have more then 20db dynamic range.

But that is a 'production choice' , not a limitation inherent of the
media.

What the public want, apparently. After all, those vast record companies
who employ the very best mastering engineers can't be wrong - can they?

They are using the best mastering engineers for these CDs? Names?



The public don't want dynamics.

Oh you've done broad based studies on the subject?

You get complaints if they have to alter
the level of their TV sound from one prog to the next.

Maybe in your home.

Perhaps they can't
find the button on the remote.


Or perhaps you have your head up your ass as usual and are completely
oblivious to the actual reasons why this plague of compression is
really taking place. It has nothing to do with consumers wanting
compression.


Scott

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
Contrary to what some may believe, measurements to me are just a
useful tool to analyse why and where. At the end of the day, though,
with acoustic music - or speech - I want realism. Which vinyl simply
can't come close to in comparison to good digital.


And yet you have never done a bias controled listening test using SOTA
lp playback gear and SOTA vinyl to verify this claim.

'Ye canna change the laws of physics, capt'n'.

You cannot seem to bring yourself to answer the question. Obviously you
haven't done it. So we can reasonably asume your preference is fully
affected by an anti LP bias and is utterly for anything other than your
own use.


..



However, my current LP playback system was near enough SOTA last time I
updated it - before CD came out.

Yeah right. A ridiculous claim given SOTA has moved far beyond anything
available before CD came out.

Scott

wrote in message
ups.com...

Keith G wrote:


**** all this 'controlled listening test' horse**** - normal listening is
the best way to enjoy LPs.....

I agree and it is the best way to enjoy CDs. However for all Plowman's
objectivist horse**** on the subject of LPs v. CDs he has never
followed the mantra and done such tests. For the record (no pun
intended) I have. My preferences are not a result of bias when it comes
to LPs and CDs.



Nor mine - I don't actively seek the Hard Way in anything in life, if I
could put up with CDs I'd listen to them, but I can't so I don't....






Consider this travesty - 50's Jazz on a CD......??

(Doesn't bear thinking about, does it?)

I already pointed out some specific examples of that travesty. The
meter readers seemed utterly ans completely disinterested when I
started talking about specific examples of terrible sounding CDs that
are trumped by great sounding LPs of the same title. It seems quite
obvious that there is little interest in sound quality amoung the meter
readers when it comes to playing great music.


It certainly seems meter readers worry more about 'artifacts' and
'distortion' than any sane person needs to - different for designers and
manufactures, possibly...




Let's keep it *real*.....


I'm tryin. Check out what Plowman did when I mentioned the new Dylan
album.


I don't see Plowie's posts - I don't allow his insolence on my machine. What
little bits leak through (enough to tell me he still replies to my posts!
:-), I see 'over other people's shoulders'...!!


Maybe he doesn't get Dylan so he doesn't care that his new CD
sucks cock sonically.


Difficult to say that with a mouthful!! :-)


Maybe music is more of a trivial artifact of
audio to him than a focal point. Next month Yes Fragile will be
released on CD by MoFi and on LP by Analog Productions. That will make
for an interesting shoot out. Meter readers need not concern
themselves, Music is involved.


Nicely put!! ;-)

Now, lay off Don - he may not be vinyl's biggest fan, but he's not bigotted
about it and has a wealth of knowledge and experience and he's nothing like
these bashers who are all yap and no trousers....

In article . com,
wrote:
I already pointed out some specific examples of that travesty. The
meter readers seemed utterly ans completely disinterested when I
started talking about specific examples of terrible sounding CDs that
are trumped by great sounding LPs of the same title.

Oh that isn't a problem for incompetent engineers. However, to make an LP
sound as good as a well recorded CD is impossible. And that's the crux of
the matter.

It seems quite obvious that there is little interest in sound quality
amoung the meter readers when it comes to playing great music.

Seems to me there's no interest in sound quality for the majority of those
who advocate vinyl - unless they're incredibly selective in what they buy
- to prove some point or other.

--
*When the going gets tough, the tough take a coffee break *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article . com,
wrote:
I'm tryin. Check out what Plowman did when I mentioned the new Dylan
album. Maybe he doesn't get Dylan so he doesn't care that his new CD
sucks cock sonically.

Is it available on LP?

--
*Vegetarians taste great*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
**** all this 'controlled listening test' horse**** - normal listening is
the best way to enjoy LPs.....

I agree and it is the best way to enjoy CDs. However for all Plowman's
objectivist horse**** on the subject of LPs v. CDs he has never
followed the mantra and done such tests. For the record (no pun
intended) I have. My preferences are not a result of bias when it comes
to LPs and CDs.



Nor mine - I don't actively seek the Hard Way in anything in life, if I
could put up with CDs I'd listen to them, but I can't so I don't....

This from one who puts up with an appalling listening room, builds single
driver horn speakers with severe restrictions at either end of the audible
frequency range, drives them with puny SET amps...

--
*The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Keith G wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Keith G wrote:


**** all this 'controlled listening test' horse**** - normal listening is
the best way to enjoy LPs.....

I agree and it is the best way to enjoy CDs. However for all Plowman's
objectivist horse**** on the subject of LPs v. CDs he has never
followed the mantra and done such tests. For the record (no pun
intended) I have. My preferences are not a result of bias when it comes
to LPs and CDs.



Nor mine - I don't actively seek the Hard Way in anything in life, if I
could put up with CDs I'd listen to them, but I can't so I don't....






Consider this travesty - 50's Jazz on a CD......??

(Doesn't bear thinking about, does it?)

I already pointed out some specific examples of that travesty. The
meter readers seemed utterly ans completely disinterested when I
started talking about specific examples of terrible sounding CDs that
are trumped by great sounding LPs of the same title. It seems quite
obvious that there is little interest in sound quality amoung the meter
readers when it comes to playing great music.


It certainly seems meter readers worry more about 'artifacts' and
'distortion' than any sane person needs to - different for designers and
manufactures, possibly...




Let's keep it *real*.....


I'm tryin. Check out what Plowman did when I mentioned the new Dylan
album.


I don't see Plowie's posts - I don't allow his insolence on my machine. What
little bits leak through (enough to tell me he still replies to my posts!
:-), I see 'over other people's shoulders'...!!


Maybe he doesn't get Dylan so he doesn't care that his new CD
sucks cock sonically.


Difficult to say that with a mouthful!! :-)


Maybe music is more of a trivial artifact of
audio to him than a focal point. Next month Yes Fragile will be
released on CD by MoFi and on LP by Analog Productions. That will make
for an interesting shoot out. Meter readers need not concern
themselves, Music is involved.


Nicely put!! ;-)

Now, lay off Don - he may not be vinyl's biggest fan, but he's not bigotted
about it and has a wealth of knowledge and experience and he's nothing like
these bashers who are all yap and no trousers....

I understand that you and Donny are pals but if it walks like a duck
and quaks like a duck... Hey, if he wants to talk audio straight up I'm
all for it. But when he chimes in without an invite and talks smack
he's gonna get bitch slapped. I don't care who his friends are.


Scott

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
I already pointed out some specific examples of that travesty. The
meter readers seemed utterly ans completely disinterested when I
started talking about specific examples of terrible sounding CDs that
are trumped by great sounding LPs of the same title.

Oh that isn't a problem for incompetent engineers.

Your stupidty continues to amaze me. ITS A PROBLEM FOR AUDIOPHILES WITH
AN INTEREST IN MUSIC. I realize that isn't a problem for *you* but for
those of us who are interested in audio for the purpose of getting the
best sound we can with the music we love it is our problem.

However, to make an LP
sound as good as a well recorded CD is impossible.


Utter bull****.


And that's the crux of
the matter.

No, for those who care about music the crux of the matter is our
favorite music is issued in many cases on many formats and sometimes
many times in those formats Those various issues tend to all sound
different mostly because of the mastering. In most cases the best
sounding version will be found on LP. For the compulsive meter readers
this simple fact flies over their heads or it is irrelevant to their
views on audio since music is of no particular interest to them.



It seems quite obvious that there is little interest in sound quality
amoung the meter readers when it comes to playing great music.

Seems to me there's no interest in sound quality for the majority of those
who advocate vinyl - unless they're incredibly selective in what they buy
- to prove some point or other.

That's because you are a complete moron obsessed with some ridiculous
fanatacism over measurements.

Scott

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
I'm tryin. Check out what Plowman did when I mentioned the new Dylan
album. Maybe he doesn't get Dylan so he doesn't care that his new CD
sucks cock sonically.

Is it available on LP?


You have to ask? Yes it is.
http://store.acousticsounds.com/brow...&section=music



Scott