"John Phillips" wrote in message
...
On 2006-10-25, Geoff wrote:
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Serge Auckland" wrote ...

I have deliberately avoided the argument as to whether even 16bit is
excessive for vinyl.........

Didn't think there was any argument?
Is ANY vinyl capable of SNR in excess of 16 bits?

Try 12 bits.

Possibly a little optimistic. We have seen earlier on uk.rec.audio
the reference to RCA's research into SOTA vinyl which gave 60 dB as the
A-weighted SNR you could achieve with the *best available* vinyl.

That would be nominally 10 bits. However if you are prepared to let
distortion on peak signals reach up to 10% or so you can get more.

Actually a genuine 60 dB is quite good enough for most performances
reproduced in the home. My own experience is that more than that
(I only have one or two recordings which use more) makes setting the
"right" volume level for the entire performance difficult.

The flies in the vinyl ointment, however, are

1. Typical retail vinyl has not been SOTA. More of it may come close
these days since the absolute volume of sales is so low but in the past
the quality, in my personal experience, was nowhere near SOTA.

2. The single A-weighted SNR figure hides a frequency-dependent noise
floor which rises from about 500 Hz downwards.



I have tried to ignore this crossposted thread where the same old faces are
thrashing over the same old rubbish, but I have to ask: What is it with
vinyl that starts all the stupid, invidious comparisons with other, more
modern (speed and convenience) media?

In my book, all the arguments are tantamount to saying a Ford Mondeo is a
better car than a 30's Bentley - a record is a record and does what a record
does, if you don't happen to like that, or prefer summat else, then don't
****ing use them!

How hard is that....??

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I have tried to ignore this crossposted thread where the same old faces
are thrashing over the same old rubbish, but I have to ask: What is it
with vinyl that starts all the stupid, invidious comparisons with
other, more modern (speed and convenience) media?

In my book, all the arguments are tantamount to saying a Ford Mondeo is
a better car than a 30's Bentley - a record is a record and does what a
record does, if you don't happen to like that, or prefer summat else,
then don't ****ing use them!

I take it you've never driven a '30s Bentley? Fun though it might be for
occasional outings, only a fool would choose it for daily use over a
Mondeo. Things move on... But why compare a Bentley with a Ford anyway?

Whatever - if you did start such a thread in a car group you'd also get
shot down unless you heavily qualified your opinion. Which is what happens
here to all those who constantly harp on about how marvellous vinyl is
while knocking digital.

There are vintage and classic car groups for those who want to enthuse
about obsolete products. And makers who still reproduce such things for
the few who want them.

But this isn't uk.rec.vintage.audio...

--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

There are vintage and classic car groups for those who want to enthuse
about obsolete products. And makers who still reproduce such things for
the few who want them.

But this isn't uk.rec.vintage.audio...

Then by that logic, why is CD still still acceptable as a discussion topic?

--
Nick

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:47:23 +0100, Nick Gorham
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

There are vintage and classic car groups for those who want to enthuse
about obsolete products. And makers who still reproduce such things for
the few who want them.

But this isn't uk.rec.vintage.audio...

Then by that logic, why is CD still still acceptable as a discussion topic?

Been HMV lately?

d
--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:47:23 +0100, Nick Gorham
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

There are vintage and classic car groups for those who want to enthuse
about obsolete products. And makers who still reproduce such things for
the few who want them.

But this isn't uk.rec.vintage.audio...

Then by that logic, why is CD still still acceptable as a discussion
topic?

Been HMV lately?



If Pipex/SmartFTP would let me, I'd post a pic of the *brand new* vinyl Swim
brought back from Edinburgh a few days ago - 4 x Virgin, 1 x HMV..

(Unless it wuz 'Scotch Mist' of course...?? ;-)

Don't let's see you joining the Denial Boyz, Don - contrary to all the
shrieks of 'obsolete' you might hear, vinyl is very much alive and still
enjoyed by a lot of (more discerning, dare I say) people today. It hasn't
gone away simply because of the sad little crowd here (and nowhere else) who
come rushing up and start yammering about bitrates, noise floors and SNRs
every time it gets a mention!!

(I still wonder what it is they are so *scared* of...??)

Don Pearce wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 12:47:23 +0100, Nick Gorham
wrote:


Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


There are vintage and classic car groups for those who want to enthuse
about obsolete products. And makers who still reproduce such things for
the few who want them.

But this isn't uk.rec.vintage.audio...

Then by that logic, why is CD still still acceptable as a discussion topic?


Been HMV lately?

d

So you are saying that CD is not obsolete, because someone is selling it?

--
Nick

In article ,
Nick Gorham wrote:
There are vintage and classic car groups for those who want to enthuse
about obsolete products. And makers who still reproduce such things for
the few who want them.

But this isn't uk.rec.vintage.audio...

Then by that logic, why is CD still still acceptable as a discussion
topic?

So you'll not find CDs on sale in your local supermarket? Perhaps they
sell LPs instead?

--
*A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Nick Gorham wrote:

There are vintage and classic car groups for those who want to enthuse
about obsolete products. And makers who still reproduce such things for
the few who want them.

But this isn't uk.rec.vintage.audio...

Then by that logic, why is CD still still acceptable as a discussion
topic?

So you'll not find CDs on sale in your local supermarket?

Generally not.

Perhaps they sell LPs instead?

No, but it is not uncommon for supermarkets to sell DVDs.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I have tried to ignore this crossposted thread where the same old faces
are thrashing over the same old rubbish, but I have to ask: What is it
with vinyl that starts all the stupid, invidious comparisons with
other, more modern (speed and convenience) media?

In my book, all the arguments are tantamount to saying a Ford Mondeo is
a better car than a 30's Bentley - a record is a record and does what a
record does, if you don't happen to like that, or prefer summat else,
then don't ****ing use them!



OK Plowie, I twigged you want to talk to me so I have fished you out of my
****ter - see if you can stay out of it...

(Doubtful...)


I take it you've never driven a '30s Bentley?


Nope, but I've driven loaded lorries with crash boxes, 'welded steering' and
no brakes worth a damn and owned two (real) Land Rovers in my time, so I
expect I could cope with one....!! ;-)


Fun though it might be for
occasional outings, only a fool would choose it for daily use over a
Mondeo.


Why? I know which I'd rather have....


Things move on...


Sure they do, but ever for the better? Name a single instance - how about a
Morris Minor buzzing along leafy lanes at, say, 60 mph compared with a
Ferrari doing 20 mph on the North Circular....???



But why compare a Bentley with a Ford anyway?


Why not, they're both cars ain't they??



Whatever - if you did start such a thread in a car group you'd also get
shot down unless you heavily qualified your opinion. Which is what happens
here to all those who constantly harp on about how marvellous vinyl is
while knocking digital.


Er, got that twisted about *as usual* - it's more a case of the little
gaggle of bashers who come rushing up to yap about how bad vinyl is every
time someone mentions it. I got news for you - I prefer it to CD bigtime and
nobody's 'shot me down' yet! I go further and suggest to you that not one
single person has been put off vinyl by all the yap here about how 'bad' it
compares with CD...



There are vintage and classic car groups for those who want to enthuse
about obsolete products. And makers who still reproduce such things for
the few who want them.



Get real and FFS stop *denying* for a moment - if you won a raffle and had
the choice of a 30's Bentley or a Mondeo which would you choose....???


But this isn't uk.rec.vintage.audio...


And it ain't uk.rec.digital.audio neither....

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
OK Plowie, I twigged you want to talk to me so I have fished you out of
my ****ter - see if you can stay out of it...

Please put me back in.

Pratts who parade their killfiles to the world don't deserve the time of
day. Just who do you think you are that it should concern all who you do
and don't read?

--
*I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.