"Wally" wrote in message
news
Keith G wrote:

Gawd, Plowie still dogging my trail? He really do need to get a
life....

Doesn't seem to understand the difference between 'buy' and 'borrow'. :-)


Plowie's a twister - twists things round to make cheap points....




Wally, call me a **** if you like, but I know of no other way to
*select* amps and/or speakers other than to have them all to hand for
swapping and chopping and making **long** comparisons over periods of
some *months*!

Nor can I. Well, I don't do all the swapping stuff, but I wouldn't dream
of
committing to something as a result of some A/B listening test - all that
will tell me is what I preferred on that day.


**Correct**...


As most of the more respected
of opinions here will note, the human doing the listening is as much a
factor in what said human thinks of the kit in question. If that's the
case,
and if it's also the case that humans change subtly day-to-day,
hour-to-hour, then it follows that a test which encompasses those changes
(and the gamut of other changes, like the weather, wot woz 'ad for dinner,
etc) will be more valid than the snapshot that is an A/B comparison.


Even taking all that into account any amp or speaker is a compromise at
best - none of them really do *everything* IME....



As, I believe, both of us has said before, whatever system has been chosen
has to be lived with day in, day out, so it's hard to see how its
suitability for that purpose can be assessed without doing just that.


Yes. After some months, if one amp's is under your bed with an inch of dust
on it (?? :-) it's telling you summat!! ;-)



snip
(It's my hobby, it's what I do....?? ;-)

Exactly. That's another thing Trevvy Wevvy would appear to completely fail
to comprehend.


Trevor's a dealer - they see things differently...

He's got a website with an interesting page on it:

http://www.rageaudio.com.au/wpap.htm

It contradicts most of what he says on here, from what I can see of it!!
;-)

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**I read just fine. What I do particularly well, is to argue coherently
and reasonably. I also don't take, at face value, what someone says,
without hard evidence.



Unless I'm getting the wrong end of the stick, this looks to me like you
don't believe I made a profit on the Mazda or sold the 300B amp for what
I paid for it...???

**Do I believe that it is possible? Certainly.


Of course it's possible!


Do I believe you did it? Not
without supporting evidence.


Fair enough - it's a free world...

(???)


Do I think that most people can get their money
back, most of the time? Absolutely not.


Who ever said they could....??





???

It makes no odds to me if you believe it or not, but why TF should I say
I did if it wasn't true - who on earth is there here to *impress* with
such bull****....???

**People say all sorts of things, for all sorts of reasons. I simply tell
people to make up their own mind, BEFORE shelling a single Squid. Sound
fair? You gonna marry a woman before bedding her?


Let me guess - you're single, aren't you??




But, asitappens, I don't entirely disagree with your 'mistrust' of
strangers - my grandfather once told me 'Don't believe half of what you
see or anything that you hear! And that was a couple of decades before
*digital anything*!!!

(But then you probably don't believe that either!! ;-)

**Correct.


OK, but it rather makes my typing and your reading of the points I make a
bit of a waste of time, doesn't it...??

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...



No idea why you repeated all that - your theories may be perfectly fine
*in principle* but AFAIAC you're living in Dreamland, when it comes to
the practicalities of valve amps in the UK....

**OK, I'll bite. Why? Be specific.


You are talking about a private individual assembling a selection of amps
that most dealers would be hard put to get together at the same time!
Then this individual gets to take all these amps home (on the heads of
his native bearers, presumably) and bugger about with them for what I
suspect would be far longer than most dealers would be comfortable with,
while he tries to sort through the inevitable 'amp blindness' that would
follow and make a *meaningful* choice....??

Get real....

**Expensive amps carry good profit margins. Dealers can afford to go the
extra kilometre. If they don't, go elsewhere.


You are not describing an extra kilometre in UK terms - more like a trip to
the moon for all but a tiny few West End dealers...


The guy with the cash in his
pocket is king, not the dealer.


Doesn't work like that here. They got tough guys on the door to keep you
*out* of most places!!


The dealer is there to provide a service.


We have an ex-dealer here who might argue with that, in the light of his own
experience. I could name you a 'kit company' that disappeared because the
two principals couldn't focus on a *profitability and efficiency* ethic and
let the 'enthusiasts' endless blather (with no money spent) under the
heading of 'providing a service' drag them under..



Perhaps it is an English thing. Here in Australia buyers don't kow-tow to
dealers. We don't doff our hats to anyone. Ever. You guys could learn a
thing or two about egalitarianism.


Yes and no......




Much better to do what I say - narrow the selection down by any means
available (demos, reviews, recommendations or whatever) to two, if he
really must, buy 'em both and then spend *as long as he wants* finalising
his choice.

**Fair enough, except:

* Demos - good idea. Even relatively uncontrolled ones.


Agreed, if there's the opportunity for a little 'up close and personal' -
certainly would help to trim your long list to a more sensiblr two or three
finalists...


* Reviews - Useless.


Not entirely, if you don't expect to have someone tell you what to do - the
odd telling remark can be helpful and the specs and pix are always
useful....


* Recommendations - Useless.


Agreed for myself - not so sure for others. I have posted here 12,000 times
that I don't take anybody's word for anything, if I can check it for myself.
If I can't, then I will take a nod from someone if I respect them.




**And your business would deserve the lack of patronage it would certainly
receive (here in Oz anyway).


Hmm...

How much time have you got....??



OTOH, I would allow him to spend as long as he wanted to audition them
on my premises and might let him take two home if I *knew* him or he paid
for both against a near future refund on the unwanted amp..

**That's a reasonable attitude.


It's a bit different here in Blighty - let me tell you of an anecdote
regarding cars: About 20/25 years ago, someone I know told me about
someone he knew who took about 20,000 quid *cash* into the Cambridge
branch of Marshalls to buy a brand new Mercedes. They told him (politely,
I suppose) to **** off and get a banker's draft - they were not prepared
to count and/or handle the notes....

(Catch my drift....?? ;-)

**Indeed. I suspect things are somewhat different here in Oz. Cash is
king. And I will readily admit that is not necessarily a good thing.


Flashing *loadsamunny* is considered a bit naff over here - it's what Chavs
like to do....

Oops....

:-)

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**I read just fine. What I do particularly well, is to argue coherently
and reasonably. I also don't take, at face value, what someone says,
without hard evidence.



Unless I'm getting the wrong end of the stick, this looks to me like you
don't believe I made a profit on the Mazda or sold the 300B amp for what
I paid for it...???

**Do I believe that it is possible? Certainly.


Of course it's possible!


Do I believe you did it? Not
without supporting evidence.


Fair enough - it's a free world...

(???)


Do I think that most people can get their money
back, most of the time? Absolutely not.


Who ever said they could....??





???

It makes no odds to me if you believe it or not, but why TF should I say
I did if it wasn't true - who on earth is there here to *impress* with
such bull****....???

**People say all sorts of things, for all sorts of reasons. I simply tell
people to make up their own mind, BEFORE shelling a single Squid. Sound
fair? You gonna marry a woman before bedding her?


Let me guess - you're single, aren't you??

**Nope. Would you care to answer my question? Plus, I have a follow-up
question: Would you buy a car without first test driving it?





But, asitappens, I don't entirely disagree with your 'mistrust' of
strangers - my grandfather once told me 'Don't believe half of what you
see or anything that you hear! And that was a couple of decades before
*digital anything*!!!

(But then you probably don't believe that either!! ;-)

**Correct.


OK, but it rather makes my typing and your reading of the points I make a
bit of a waste of time, doesn't it...??

**Perhaps. I do, however, sense that you can see my point of view.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**I read just fine. What I do particularly well, is to argue
coherently and reasonably. I also don't take, at face value, what
someone says, without hard evidence.



Unless I'm getting the wrong end of the stick, this looks to me like
you don't believe I made a profit on the Mazda or sold the 300B amp for
what I paid for it...???

**Do I believe that it is possible? Certainly.


Of course it's possible!


Do I believe you did it? Not
without supporting evidence.


Fair enough - it's a free world...

(???)


Do I think that most people can get their money
back, most of the time? Absolutely not.


Who ever said they could....??





???

It makes no odds to me if you believe it or not, but why TF should I
say I did if it wasn't true - who on earth is there here to *impress*
with such bull****....???

**People say all sorts of things, for all sorts of reasons. I simply
tell people to make up their own mind, BEFORE shelling a single Squid.
Sound fair? You gonna marry a woman before bedding her?


Let me guess - you're single, aren't you??

**Nope. Would you care to answer my question?



What? The one where you seem to imply that the ideal wife is the one who is
a good shag? Don't you ever wonder how they got to be so good...??

I've told you before, I'd marry the one who could cook!! (You can get a shag
anytime but I know I will die without ever tasting steak and kidney pie like
my mother used make again!!)

(Trevor, I could tell you stories that would make your trousers ride up, but
you wouldn't believe them anyway!! :-)



Plus, I have a follow-up
question: Would you buy a car without first test driving it?


Sure. Done that a number of times - including the Mercedes 4WD in one of the
pix I posted recently and my current car!

Explanation (knowing I'm wasting my time) - I was in the Mercedes dealer
with my Sales Director when we were told that her two year old car (which we
were there to collect) with coming up for 60,000 miles on the clock would
suddenly take a dive in value, so I said OK, swap it for the G-Wagen (could
see it from the window) and tear up the servicing bill. He did - I drove
that back and she had my BMW from that point on.

My current car was my brother's - he was going to p/x it for a paltry sum, I
said Oh no you don't, I'll have it! and paid him the p/x price for it. He
got 500 off his new car for a cash/no px deal - I had never driven it
before.

Now, do you believe a word of any of that...??

Trevor, maybe it's me, but I buy a lot of stuff untested/unseen and go by
'nose' and hearsay - I drop a bollock occasionally, but nothing I can't get
over/put right. Life's too damn short to *test* everything to death - grab
'em all, run 'em hard and keep the best is my motto!







But, asitappens, I don't entirely disagree with your 'mistrust' of
strangers - my grandfather once told me 'Don't believe half of what you
see or anything that you hear! And that was a couple of decades before
*digital anything*!!!

(But then you probably don't believe that either!! ;-)

**Correct.


OK, but it rather makes my typing and your reading of the points I make a
bit of a waste of time, doesn't it...??

**Perhaps. I do, however, sense that you can see my point of view.


Your methods are not mine - we are complete opposites, I suspect!

"Keith G" wrote


What? The one where you seem to imply that the ideal wife is the one who
is a good shag? Don't you ever wonder how they got to be so good...??


Had a though when I sent my reply - do they have to give you a blow job as
well....??

(Just asking....)



I've told you before, I'd marry the one who could cook!! (You can get a
shag anytime but I know I will die without ever tasting steak and kidney
pie like my mother used make again!!)


**pudding** - Steak and kidney PUDDING!!

Is why I appended my reply!!

That and transport cafe sausages in dangerously crispy bread rolls - the
ones where the crust flakes can cut your face as they fly off when you bite
into them!!

****. I am glum now....

:-(

And hungry.....

****...

In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
It's a bit different here in Blighty - let me tell you of an anecdote
regarding cars: About 20/25 years ago, someone I know told me about
someone he knew who took about 20,000 quid *cash* into the Cambridge
branch of Marshalls to buy a brand new Mercedes. They told him
(politely, I suppose) to **** off and get a banker's draft - they
were not prepared to count and/or handle the notes....

(Catch my drift....?? ;-)

**Indeed. I suspect things are somewhat different here in Oz. Cash is
king. And I will readily admit that is not necessarily a good thing.

Mr G's 'friend of a friend' story about an M-B dealer and cash is an urban
myth. It's been trotted out over the years about all sorts of makes - but
mainly R-R.

--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Keith G wrote:

Even taking all that into account any amp or speaker is a compromise
at best - none of them really do *everything* IME....

Quite so. At the end of the day, you have to get on with your life - ie, do
what you're *into* doing. The biggest compromise here is the room the
system's in. There's little point in trying to advance beyond a certain
level of fidelity/quality/sonic character without fixing the room. Since I
can't be arsed fixing the room, things will stay as they are until I can. It
doesn't sound like **** as far as I'm concerned, and I have better things to
do than chase the next miniscule percentage improvement that such effort
might yield. I can either knit my brows in intense concentration and attempt
to determine the increasingly-slight differences in fidelity/blah, or I can
go out and boot the arse off my sports car. Tough choice! :-)


Yes. After some months, if one amp's is under your bed with an inch
of dust on it (?? :-) it's telling you summat!! ;-)

Yup!


Trevor's a dealer - they see things differently...

Funny that, I could have sworn he's an opiniated **** who's so arrogant that
he can't see that there are more approaches to acquiring and enjoying audio
gear than his. I wonder what he does when he thinks of going on holiday to
some place he hasn't visited before? Does he borrow the holiday from a
travel agent and try it out for a while first? Or does he look at the
brochures, get the opinions of people who've been, and draw comparative
inferences based on what he *has* experienced - ie, does he take a chance on
the attraction and just go find out what it's like?


He's got a website with an interesting page on it:

http://www.rageaudio.com.au/****.htm

It contradicts most of what he says on here, from what I can see of
it!! ;-)

I'll have to take your word for it (not that Trevvy "I'm not right, I'm
arrogant!" Wevvy would do such a thing). I have little time for his
opiniated ****e, and even less for his 'white paper'(wot a fanny!) screed.


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk
You're unique - just like everybody else.

Keith G wrote:

Trevor, maybe it's me, but I buy a lot of stuff untested/unseen and
go by 'nose' and hearsay - I drop a bollock occasionally, but nothing
I can't get over/put right. Life's too damn short to *test*
everything to death ...

Too *****ing* right.

What this basically gets down to is how a person chooses to approach life.
What dumb, self-absorbed ****ers like Trevvy Wevvy fail to understand that
his approach isn't neccessarily the same as that of others. Yet he talks as
if it is. He talks down to people who don't do it the way he does - and, in
so doing, exposes himself as an arrogant, blinkered ****.


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk
I eat my peas with honey, I've done it all my life.
It makes the peas taste funny, but it keeps them on the knife.
(Spike Milligan)

Keith G wrote:

That and transport cafe sausages in dangerously crispy bread rolls -
the ones where the crust flakes can cut your face as they fly off
when you bite into them!!

Or a bacon roll and hot coffee. There's a cafe recently opened near me that
does 'em *just right*. Perfect after an hour or so's boot in the Mister2!


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk
Stress: You wake up screaming and realise you haven't fallen asleep yet.