"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote


Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold cheek
by
jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies. People are
usually
buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))


So I gather - have never been to one myself....

Great fun. I always come away with some goodies:-)

I have just acquired a mint boxed set of Tchaikovsky: Complete Symphonies
VPO:Maazel. Brilliant:-)


That remark had me checking my 'boxes'! :-)

I have two boxed sets of Tchike - one is The Hague Philharmonic
Orch/Otterloo and the other has no details of the band or conductor but
merely states 'Dacrop Recordings, complete & uncut'...??? A treat for
later, if I can push past my current 'opera/lieder fixation'...!!

(I love boxed sets - very often they are completely *unplayed* or only
Side 1/Disc 1 has been played!! :-)

Yes indeed. This applies in particular to Readers' Digest boxed sets (like
the
40 sides of Mantovani, which sold in huge numbers!!)

Imagine - 40 sides of Mantovani!!!

While I'm on....

I have only just recently restored my Jerichos to my room:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/pianoblack2.JPG

They are troublesome boxes and, even with the EX3s in them, can sound very
hoarse/croaky on speech. Sometimes, if I walk in on them with Classick FM
(DAB) on and an announcement's in progress they can sound quite 'quacky'!!
Then the music starts and that's all gone, thankfully, but I've got them
under close scrute atm and fully expect to have to do something about
them!

Please keep us informed. I am hoping to be able to borrow for evaluation
a pair of Lowther Delphic (2xEX3 in each enclosure, about 170 litres)
in the New year. I am very much looking forward to it.


They are *without doubt* truly remarkable speakers - once you 'get it'
with them and can overcome (or tune out) the odd 'characteristic' (see
'quacky' above) there's no going back to ordinary speakers, believe
me....!!

(Btw, ignore the usual silly remarks about top and bottom octaves - they
are no more deficient in these areas that most/many other speakers....)

My personal experience is that the LF is a little weak. One would expect
the eight orchestral basses on Prokofiev Op.25 to have a little more "grunt"
As regards the top end, I agree with you. I do not find them lacking.

Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote


Yes indeed. This applies in particular to Readers' Digest boxed sets
(like the
40 sides of Mantovani, which sold in huge numbers!!)

Imagine - 40 sides of Mantovani!!!



I don't have to *imagine* it....

....I've *got* it....!! ;-)


(Can't beat a bit of Mantovani when you're doing the polishing wiv yer
yellow Marigolds on!! :-)



They are troublesome boxes and, even with the EX3s in them, can sound
very hoarse/croaky on speech. Sometimes, if I walk in on them with
Classick FM (DAB) on and an announcement's in progress they can sound
quite 'quacky'!! Then the music starts and that's all gone, thankfully,
but I've got them under close scrute atm and fully expect to have to do
something about them!

Please keep us informed.


Will do. I'm still scunnered by the idea of *filters* and am wondering what
may be done with an equaliser and at what point in the signal chain...??


I am hoping to be able to borrow for evaluation
a pair of Lowther Delphic (2xEX3 in each enclosure, about 170 litres)
in the New year. I am very much looking forward to it.


Right, well I look forward to hearing all about that, come the time. The
worst thing with 'Lowthers' is trying to *evaluate* them - they need using
over a period of time and on a range of material before any meaningful
conclusions can be drawn. Trust me, the 'resin clouds' become very well
defined after a while with them!!

(It has been often said here, quite correctly, that *wow factor* is the one
thing you *don't* need with speakers, but an eventual *my goodness* factor
is definitely to be desired, IMO.... ;-)


(Btw, ignore the usual silly remarks about top and bottom octaves - they
are no more deficient in these areas that most/many other speakers....)

My personal experience is that the LF is a little weak. One would expect
the eight orchestral basses on Prokofiev Op.25 to have a little more
"grunt"
As regards the top end, I agree with you. I do not find them lacking.



The LF issue is an interesting one - the question of 'perspective' comes
into the equation. Basses in an orchestra that has been recorded well enough
to represent the scale and perspective of an 'orchestral' piece should
never, IMO, sound like the sort of bass that would keep a Chav happy in his
hatchback! I'm not of the school that all speakers should do all things
equally well - cabinet design is paramount here and I'm not sure I'd
recommend 'FR horns' to people who wanted the sort of 'in yer face',
percussive bass that will flap yer trousers!

For them that want the clarity and insight of horns but also appreciate the
visceral, low bass of good organ music, there's always the option of a sub -
which is no more or less the case than with most other speakers with cones
of similar (or less) dimension to the not insubstantial 232mm of most
Lowthers!!

Personally, I think I'm baulking at the idea of a sub (I don't see how one
could possibly 'keep up') and, hopefully sometime soon, will be looking at
the idea of 'box enclosures':

http://melhuish.org/audio/box.html

.....as, good a sound as I think it is I'm getting now, I do get the feeling
my 'organ' could do with a little help at times...??

:-)

In article , Keith G
wrote:
It is impossible to describe the *3D* quality - speech was coming
direct from the actor's mouths (not uncommon, I know)

ITYM from the centre of the speakers. It's mono in 99.9% of the progs on
TV. If you're hearing it coming from the actor's mouths, you're fooling
yourself.

but the rest of the sounds were laid out with perfect separation, depth
and clarity.

Be nice if you mentioned what you were watching.

(It
was better than I have ever heard from any 'surround sound'..!!)

Nothing unusual there. I've yet to hear domestic surround which I prefer
to stereo. They all mess up the important bit - the front sound stage, to
some extent. Only one I liked was Ambisonics.

--
*All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
news

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:24:01 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold cheek
by
jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies. People are
usually
buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))

So there's a small but enthusiastic following for vinyl. Of which a
few will worship vinyl per se, but most will be interested in the
music on the vinyl.

I have the feeling that the following is larger than one might
suspect. There is a huge amount of music which has not
been issued on CD. This includes many definitive versions
of classical works, and a lot of good jazz.

Wow! What a reliable definitive statement: "I have the feeling".

Iain, I have reliable knowledge that you're hyper-conservative, highly
biased and egocentric.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
news

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 09:24:01 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Keith. A visit to any large audio fare where, CDs and vinyl is sold
cheek
by
jowl, will demonstrate to anyone where the interest lies. People are
usually
buzzing like bees around the vinyl sellers:-))

So there's a small but enthusiastic following for vinyl. Of which a
few will worship vinyl per se, but most will be interested in the
music on the vinyl.

I have the feeling that the following is larger than one might
suspect. There is a huge amount of music which has not
been issued on CD. This includes many definitive versions
of classical works, and a lot of good jazz.

Wow! What a reliable definitive statement: "I have the feeling".

Iain, I have reliable knowledge that you're hyper-conservative, highly
biased and egocentric.


LOL.

Thanks, Arnie
You "Born Again Christians" are such *nice* people:-)

Cordially
Iain

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote


Yes indeed. This applies in particular to Readers' Digest boxed sets
(like the
40 sides of Mantovani, which sold in huge numbers!!)

Imagine - 40 sides of Mantovani!!!



I don't have to *imagine* it....

...I've *got* it....!! ;-)

Gosh:-))



(Can't beat a bit of Mantovani when you're doing the polishing wiv yer
yellow Marigolds on!! :-)

Don't you have a butler to do that?

There were stories that Decca had a set of "special" violins that
were used only on Mantovani recordings, to make the unmistakeable
"shimmering sound" !!

In fact, the sound, which made the Mantovani orchestra instantly
recognisable, and helped to make him the biggest selling artist
in the UK pre Beatles, was down to his arranger Ronald Binge
(the man who is best known for his composition "Elizabethan
Serenade")

I am hoping to be able to borrow for evaluation
a pair of Lowther Delphic (2xEX3 in each enclosure, about 170 litres)
in the New year. I am very much looking forward to it.


Right, well I look forward to hearing all about that, come the time. The
worst thing with 'Lowthers' is trying to *evaluate* them - they need using
over a period of time and on a range of material before any meaningful
conclusions can be drawn. Trust me, the 'resin clouds' become very well
defined after a while with them!!

It took me quite a long time to get to grips with them, and to appreciate
there strengths and weaknesses. As mentioned before, I was listening to
an unknown pair of speakers (in facts several sets) driven by an unknown
amp in an unknown room. Two variables too many! But still, I was pleased
by what I heard.


(It has been often said here, quite correctly, that *wow factor* is the
one thing you *don't* need with speakers, but an eventual *my goodness*
factor is definitely to be desired, IMO.... ;-)

Wow factor has never been of interest. I use recordings that I know
intimately, and so I also know how they should (can) sound.


(Btw, ignore the usual silly remarks about top and bottom octaves - they
are no more deficient in these areas that most/many other speakers....)

My personal experience is that the LF is a little weak. One would expect
the eight orchestral basses on Prokofiev Op.25 to have a little more
"grunt"
As regards the top end, I agree with you. I do not find them lacking.



The LF issue is an interesting one - the question of 'perspective' comes
into the equation. Basses in an orchestra that has been recorded well
enough to represent the scale and perspective of an 'orchestral' piece
should never, IMO, sound like the sort of bass that would keep a Chav
happy in his hatchback! I'm not of the school that all speakers should do
all things equally well - cabinet design is paramount here and I'm not
sure I'd recommend 'FR horns' to people who wanted the sort of 'in yer
face', percussive bass that will flap yer trousers!

No trouser flapping required. But realism has to be the objective. I have
heard the Prokofiev handled better by both Tannoy and B+W, but again,
I was also listening in an unfamilar room, so cannot put any shortcomings
down to the speakers alone.

Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote


(Can't beat a bit of Mantovani when you're doing the polishing wiv yer
yellow Marigolds on!! :-)

Don't you have a butler to do that?


I *am* the sodding butler......

('Recordist' atm though - excuse any typos, I'm trying to type silently!!
:-)




There were stories that Decca had a set of "special" violins that
were used only on Mantovani recordings, to make the unmistakeable
"shimmering sound" !!


:-)



In fact, the sound, which made the Mantovani orchestra instantly
recognisable, and helped to make him the biggest selling artist
in the UK pre Beatles, was down to his arranger Ronald Binge
(the man who is best known for his composition "Elizabethan
Serenade")



Yep, but what put me onto him was the fabulous tune 'Sailing By' that used
to close R4 in the wee small hours, after the Shipping Forecast. A truly
magical experience hearing that late on a balmy summer's night, I can tell
you!.

I have a CD of his better known stuff:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Binge.JPG


(But don't let Arny know, or I'll lose my 'vinyl bigot' status...!! ;-)




I am hoping to be able to borrow for evaluation
a pair of Lowther Delphic (2xEX3 in each enclosure, about 170 litres)
in the New year. I am very much looking forward to it.


Right, well I look forward to hearing all about that, come the time. The
worst thing with 'Lowthers' is trying to *evaluate* them - they need
using
over a period of time and on a range of material before any meaningful
conclusions can be drawn. Trust me, the 'resin clouds' become very well
defined after a while with them!!

It took me quite a long time to get to grips with them, and to appreciate
there strengths and weaknesses. As mentioned before, I was listening to
an unknown pair of speakers (in facts several sets) driven by an unknown
amp in an unknown room. Two variables too many! But still, I was pleased
by what I heard.


Good, but 'living with them' for a number of months is the only way, as you
know!



(It has been often said here, quite correctly, that *wow factor* is the
one thing you *don't* need with speakers, but an eventual *my goodness*
factor is definitely to be desired, IMO.... ;-)

Wow factor has never been of interest. I use recordings that I know
intimately, and so I also know how they should (can) sound.



I think when I got into the horns I was surprised on many occasions to hear
stuff 'for the very first time' - instruments and even words that had never
been properly revealed before even on very familiar recordings! I'm sure
you'll notice the same thing!



The LF issue is an interesting one - the question of 'perspective' comes
into the equation. Basses in an orchestra that has been recorded well
enough to represent the scale and perspective of an 'orchestral' piece
should never, IMO, sound like the sort of bass that would keep a Chav
happy in his hatchback! I'm not of the school that all speakers should do
all things equally well - cabinet design is paramount here and I'm not
sure I'd recommend 'FR horns' to people who wanted the sort of 'in yer
face', percussive bass that will flap yer trousers!

No trouser flapping required. But realism has to be the objective. I have
heard the Prokofiev handled better by both Tannoy and B+W, but again,
I was also listening in an unfamilar room, so cannot put any shortcomings
down to the speakers alone.


Yes, I have Ruarks and Tannoys here that would do some things better also -
including the afore-mentioned organ music..!!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:
It is impossible to describe the *3D* quality - speech was coming
direct from the actor's mouths (not uncommon, I know)

ITYM from the centre of the speakers.


No! Straight from their mouths on the TV screen - that's the whole point!!
(The TV was close up and off to one side, the speakers much further back!)


It's mono in 99.9% of the progs on
TV. If you're hearing it coming from the actor's mouths, you're fooling
yourself.


Yes, of course - that's how it works!! (It's mind over matter! :-)

You/one can normally 'reset' sound by closing your eyes and centering on it,
but my point here is that the illusion won!



but the rest of the sounds were laid out with perfect separation, depth
and clarity.

Be nice if you mentioned what you were watching.


No idea, if it was live (I normally watch from my hard disk but rarely watch
a whole prog in one go) - if it was last night, could it have been summat
like 'Spooks'..??? (Which I've never seen, but am aware of!)



(It
was better than I have ever heard from any 'surround sound'..!!)

Nothing unusual there. I've yet to hear domestic surround which I prefer
to stereo. They all mess up the important bit - the front sound stage, to
some extent. Only one I liked was Ambisonics.


Never heard that myself...

"Keith G" wrote


Yep, but what put me onto him was the fabulous tune 'Sailing By' that used
to close R4 in the wee small hours, after the Shipping Forecast. A truly
magical experience hearing that late on a balmy summer's night, I can tell
you!.


Here - in the finest 'Show N Tell' tradition, I have posted it for you:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...iling%20By.mp3

Enjoy!!

:-)

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
In fact, the sound, which made the Mantovani orchestra instantly
recognisable, and helped to make him the biggest selling artist
in the UK pre Beatles, was down to his arranger Ronald Binge
(the man who is best known for his composition "Elizabethan
Serenade")



Yep, but what put me onto him was the fabulous tune 'Sailing By' that
used to close R4 in the wee small hours, after the Shipping Forecast. A
truly magical experience hearing that late on a balmy summer's night, I
can tell you!.

Except that it's not by him. It's library music - the sort issued for pro
use where you don't buy the actual CD but just pay for the usage. And
played by session musicians. It may of course have been issued
commercially afterwards.

--
*Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.