In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Read the numbers:

Lowther PM6C (30 - 20k) Lowther EX3 (30 - 22k) Fostex FE103E (fs - 22k)
Visaton B200 (fu - 18k) Visaton FRS8-8 (80 - 20k)

None of the drivers I currently use quote a top end anything like as low
as 10k. Consequently, I take all these 'readings/measurements' and
various other figures with a pinch of salt - it what they *sound* like
(overall) to me that counts...

Those numbers mean nothing without how they're derived.

--
*No I haven't stolen it , I'm just a **** driver*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Read the numbers:

Lowther PM6C (30 - 20k) Lowther EX3 (30 - 22k) Fostex FE103E (fs - 22k)
Visaton B200 (fu - 18k) Visaton FRS8-8 (80 - 20k)

None of the drivers I currently use quote a top end anything like as low
as 10k. Consequently, I take all these 'readings/measurements' and
various other figures with a pinch of salt - it what they *sound* like
(overall) to me that counts...

Those numbers mean nothing without how they're derived.



Frankly, the numbers don't mean very much at all in the real world, other
than to a designer or manufacturer - for example, the frequency range of a
full orchestra is only about 40-14k and the *dink dink* 'Top C' on a piano
is only about 4096 Hz with only weak (inaudible for most purposes) harmonics
extending beyond 10 kHz....

(Kinda make waving the *numbers* about a bit of an exercise in
pointlessness, doesn't it...??? :-)

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Frankly, the numbers don't mean very much at all in the real world,
other than to a designer or manufacturer - for example, the frequency
range of a full orchestra is only about 40-14k and the *dink dink* 'Top
C' on a piano is only about 4096 Hz with only weak (inaudible for most
purposes) harmonics extending beyond 10 kHz....

If the harmonics were inaudible it would sound like a sine wave. So
nothing like a piano at all.

I'm amazed at you. You go on and on about the subtle differences you claim
to hear then come up with rubbish like this...

--
*The severity of the itch is proportional to the reach *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Frankly, the numbers don't mean very much at all in the real world,
other than to a designer or manufacturer - for example, the frequency
range of a full orchestra is only about 40-14k and the *dink dink* 'Top
C' on a piano is only about 4096 Hz with only weak (inaudible for most
purposes) harmonics extending beyond 10 kHz....

If the harmonics were inaudible it would sound like a sine wave. So
nothing like a piano at all.

I'm amazed at you. You go on and on about the subtle differences you claim
to hear then come up with rubbish like this...



Plowie, you really got to stop *making things up* - it does you no credit
whatsoever! I have never posted that I can hear subtle differences - quite
the reverse (as ****ing usual), in fact I have only just this moment replied
to Don to effectively say I accomodate differences almost too quickly to
make other than 'night and day' comparisons between subtle changes in kit.
It's *why* I ask the milkman for his opinion....

....except that we don't have a milkman...

As the the utter ******** regarding the mention of Top C on a piano - do you
think I *invented* the phrase 'inaudible for most purposes'...?? Or, to put
it your way: So you don't know that progressively higher orders of harmonics
become increasingly inaudible...??

Now stop clutching at straws and go see my reply to Don - lots for you to
get your knife into there....

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
As the the utter ******** regarding the mention of Top C on a piano - do
you think I *invented* the phrase 'inaudible for most purposes'...??

Doesn't matter whether you did or not - quoting it would suggest you
believe it.

Or, to put it your way: So you don't know that progressively higher
orders of harmonics become increasingly inaudible...??

Do you understand what a sine wave is?

If the harmonics from a musical instrument were unimportant then top C
from a piano would sound exactly the same as from a violin. Of course
perhaps they do on your setup...

--
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
As the the utter ******** regarding the mention of Top C on a piano - do
you think I *invented* the phrase 'inaudible for most purposes'...??

Doesn't matter whether you did or not - quoting it would suggest you
believe it.

Or, to put it your way: So you don't know that progressively higher
orders of harmonics become increasingly inaudible...??

Do you understand what a sine wave is?

If the harmonics from a musical instrument were unimportant then top C
from a piano would sound exactly the same as from a violin. Of course
perhaps they do on your setup...



Didn't take you long, did it...??

:-)

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
If the harmonics from a musical instrument were unimportant then top C
from a piano would sound exactly the same as from a violin. Of course
perhaps they do on your setup...

Didn't take you long, did it...??

Perfectly valid comment given your love of devices which alter the
harmonic content of a signal.

You can't have it both ways, dear boy. ;-)

--
*Funny, I don't remember being absent minded.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Frankly, the numbers don't mean very much at all in the
real world, other than to a designer or manufacturer -
for example, the frequency range of a full orchestra is
only about 40-14k and the *dink dink* 'Top C' on a piano
is only about 4096 Hz with only weak (inaudible for most
purposes) harmonics extending beyond 10 kHz....

If the harmonics were inaudible it would sound like a
sine wave. So nothing like a piano at all.

I'm amazed at you. You go on and on about the subtle
differences you claim to hear then come up with rubbish
like this...

More to the point, is the lack of quality of reproduction that we get at
high frequencies by single-way drivers.

There are hard physical laws that say you can't have deep bass and high
efficiency and small size at the same time. If you add good dynamic range,
then things get that much more difficult.

In a similar fashion, you can't have deep bass, extended treble, smooth
response, and broad dispersion at the same time.

I still remember doing some frequency response measurements on a "full
range" JBL 15" driver in engineerings school in the middlee 1960s. Believe
it or not, it had response at 13 KHz. But only on-axis. And only after a
number of audible dips and peaks at lower frequencies.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Frankly, the numbers don't mean very much at all in the
real world, other than to a designer or manufacturer -
for example, the frequency range of a full orchestra is
only about 40-14k and the *dink dink* 'Top C' on a piano
is only about 4096 Hz with only weak (inaudible for most
purposes) harmonics extending beyond 10 kHz....

If the harmonics were inaudible it would sound like a
sine wave. So nothing like a piano at all.

I'm amazed at you. You go on and on about the subtle
differences you claim to hear then come up with rubbish
like this...

More to the point, is the lack of quality of reproduction that we get at
high frequencies by single-way drivers.

There are hard physical laws that say you can't have deep bass and high
efficiency and small size at the same time. If you add good dynamic range,
then things get that much more difficult.

In a similar fashion, you can't have deep bass, extended treble, smooth
response, and broad dispersion at the same time.

I still remember doing some frequency response measurements on a "full
range" JBL 15" driver in engineerings school in the middlee 1960s. Believe
it or not, it had response at 13 KHz. But only on-axis. And only after a
number of audible dips and peaks at lower frequencies.



You could set fire to vintage JBLs (horn tweeter models?) and there's one or
two around these parts would *still* buy them while they burned, but I'm not
so sure about the new stuff....???