"Keith G" wrote in message
...
But, on a more serious note, I have often wondered if 'tubed' CDPs sound
any better (I've never heard one myself) - having witnessed a vast
number* of people here being staggered backwards to hear CDs (including
their own) played through valve amps for the first time!!

Of course they sound DIFFERENT.
"Better" is purely a *subjective opinion* in that case with large numbers in
each camp.
*Objectively* there is no contest though.
The distinction is lost on non technical people unfortunately.

MrT.

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Not as confusing as numbering 2-disc sets of LPs 1/4 and 2/3 for
public
performance - where the playing order goes/went as follows:
Stack the albums with sides in this order from the top: 1/4, 3/2
Play Side 1, flip both discs together
Play Side 2, flip top disc only
Play Side 3, remove top disc
Play Side 4, remove disc, take bow, bring up house lights....

Yes totally stupid, those with 2 decks want disks 1/3 and 2/4 so the
change
can be seamless.


I'm not sure completely *seamless* was really ever the aim - more a case
of not having to try and handle two discs at the same time in a 'one
coming off and one going on' situation?

It's interesting that the much more common 1/2, 3/4 numbering system
doesn't allow a smooth changeover on a single deck, offers no advantage
over the above 'single deck' routine on two decks and doesn't even work
on an autochanger...??

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
But, on a more serious note, I have often wondered if 'tubed' CDPs
sound
any better (I've never heard one myself) - having witnessed a vast
number* of people here being staggered backwards to hear CDs
(including
their own) played through valve amps for the first time!!

Of course they sound DIFFERENT.


But have you actually *heard* one...??


"Better" is purely a *subjective opinion* in that case with large
numbers in
each camp.
*Objectively* there is no contest though.
The distinction is lost on non technical people unfortunately.


Lost on me, that's for sure - what is the distinction?

(I suspect you are describing the scenario where someone has been
listening to the music and says he prefers a particular player and
someone else who has been *\0easuring* stuff says 'No, you are
*wrong*!!'...??)

"Keith G" wrote


(I suspect you are describing the scenario where someone has been
listening to the music and says he prefers a particular player and
someone else who has been * easuring* stuff says 'No, you are
*wrong*!!'...??)


Found this m stuck to the screen...!!

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
But, on a more serious note, I have often wondered if 'tubed' CDPs
sound
any better (I've never heard one myself) - having witnessed a vast
number* of people here being staggered backwards to hear CDs
(including
their own) played through valve amps for the first time!!

Of course they sound DIFFERENT.

But have you actually *heard* one...??

Very many of each. Although "heard" may be the wrong term in the case of any
good amplifier. Any coloration you hear in almost all cases is the speakers
and the acoustic environment they are located in. If you do hear a major
difference caused by an amplifier, then the amp is seriously flawed.
And it's funny that when solid state amplifiers did get so close to the
ideal "piece of wire with gain" many years ago, some people started paying
big dollars for "better" cables :-)
Which is not to say there aren't some seriously flawed and even unstable
solid state designs around if you look hard enough. Just not as many as
seriously flawed tube designs these days.

"Better" is purely a *subjective opinion* in that case with large
numbers in
each camp.
*Objectively* there is no contest though.
The distinction is lost on non technical people unfortunately.

Lost on me, that's for sure - what is the distinction?

If you don't understand the difference between objective testing, and
subjective opinion, I suggest you do some basic research.

(I suspect you are describing the scenario where someone has been
listening to the music and says he prefers a particular player and
someone else who has been *measuring* stuff says 'No, you are
*wrong*!!'...??)

Put simply, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, regardless of it's
relationship to physical reality.
You cannot disprove someone's personal subjective opinion, despite the
number of flame fests on Usenet trying to do so.
But as the saying goes "opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and
they're often full of ****".

MrT.

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
But, on a more serious note, I have often wondered if 'tubed' CDPs
sound
any better (I've never heard one myself) - having witnessed a vast
number* of people here being staggered backwards to hear CDs
(including
their own) played through valve amps for the first time!!

Of course they sound DIFFERENT.

But have you actually *heard* one...??

Very many of each. Although "heard" may be the wrong term in the case
of any
good amplifier.



I meant have you heard a 'tubed' CD player?



"Better" is purely a *subjective opinion* in that case with large
numbers in
each camp.
*Objectively* there is no contest though.
The distinction is lost on non technical people unfortunately.

Lost on me, that's for sure - what is the distinction?

If you don't understand the difference between objective testing, and
subjective opinion, I suggest you do some basic research.


No. You just tell me what the distinction is.


(I suspect you are describing the scenario where someone has been
listening to the music and says he prefers a particular player and
someone else who has been *measuring* stuff says 'No, you are
*wrong*!!'...??)

Put simply, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, regardless of
it's
relationship to physical reality.


What physical reality? That they are *wrong*??


You cannot disprove someone's personal subjective opinion, despite the
number of flame fests on Usenet trying to do so.
But as the saying goes "opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one
and
they're often full of ****".


Not really relevant here - we are talking about an 'opinion' which is
expressed by *choice* (presumably after some physical comparisons)
rather than an opinon expressed as an *observation*, are we not?

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
I meant have you heard a 'tubed' CD player?

Yes, so what?

If you don't understand the difference between objective testing, and
subjective opinion, I suggest you do some basic research.

No. You just tell me what the distinction is.

Does your nappy need changing too?

Not really relevant here - we are talking about an 'opinion' which is
expressed by *choice* (presumably after some physical comparisons)
rather than an opinon expressed as an *observation*, are we not?

Opinions are always a choice, physical reality goes on regardless.

MrT.

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
I meant have you heard a 'tubed' CD player?

Yes, so what?


So, do you think they sound *better*?


If you don't understand the difference between objective testing,
and
subjective opinion, I suggest you do some basic research.

No. You just tell me what the distinction is.

Does your nappy need changing too?


Why, are you volunteering?



Not really relevant here - we are talking about an 'opinion' which is
expressed by *choice* (presumably after some physical comparisons)
rather than an opinon expressed as an *observation*, are we not?

Opinions are always a choice, physical reality goes on regardless.


OK, I retract my earlier remark about there being some benefits to
crossposting - meaningless waffle, insults and a seriously stupid
'Usenet name' are still all par for the course, it seems....

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
I meant have you heard a 'tubed' CD player?

Yes, so what?


So, do you think they sound *better*?

Yes, everything sounds *better* to me with audible noise and distortion
added in. ;-)

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I meant have you heard a 'tubed' CD player?

I know you've put it in parenthesis, but a genuine valve CD player would
be the size of a house...

--
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.