"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...


"Dave" wrote


The point was that if I thought a CD sounded poor quality I think
there should be a computer program to confirm this, instead of just
asking someone else.

That's like asking if there's a computer program to confirm a wine is
of poor quality, or a piece of art work is of poor quality. Quality is
subjective, is a composite of many individual factors and can't be
reduced to a number. A computer program (or manual instruments) can
analyse the performance of a piece of music, and give you numbers for
dynamic range, frequency range and by analysing the gaps between
music, the background noise level. It can't then tell you whether this
is "good" or "bad" as these are value judgements.


The clue to the answer to this sort of question is usually in the
question itself. Plenty of people seem need to see figures or a graph to
answer the 'am I enjoying/did I enjoy that?' question - there's no
shortage of that in here....

Me? I wouldn't be without the Deviation Meter on me chooner - otherwise,
how TF would I know if the music was sounding any good (or not)..??

;-)

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 04:53:54 -0400, Dave Plowman (News) wrote
(in article ):

In article ,
Colin B. wrote:
There's a far more mundane explanation. Recent
music distribution, including CDs, have suffered
from an industry-wide of sever over compression,
limiting and clipping, as an endemic result of the
mastering process.

I'd suggest that this isn't a recent phenomenon. I've got plenty of pop
vinyl from the 1970s and 1980s that has roughly no dynamics. Making crap
sound louder on the radio at the complete expense of quality is decades
old.

There's a difference in how this was acheived, though. In older days it
was through the arrangement of the music and studio recording practices.
The Phil Spector 'wall of sound' for example.
These days it's done using largely automatic processors after the studio
recording is signed off. Similar to the types used for processing radio at
the transmitters.



I'll respectfully disgree, Dave. Colin's right. In the US, anyway.

In our local songwriters ass'n compilation CD, two years ago, we had several
entries that were mp3 and NOT particularly well done. We let it go in the
name of art. (Not this year though.)

Lots of artifacts and reduced bandwidth that's what you look (listen) for.
Try MP3ing them and see if they don't fall apart even more precipitously
relative to normal wav files.

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 07:13:28 -0400, Keith G wrote
(in article ):


"Colin B." wrote


I'd suggest that this isn't a recent phenomenon. I've got plenty of
pop
vinyl from the 1970s and 1980s that has roughly no dynamics.



Yep, you bought it so *they* kept on supplying it - same thing's
happening today, apparently. Where's the problem?


Making crap
sound louder on the radio at the complete expense of quality is
decades old.


Compressed audio like 'Classic FM' on a car radio works very well,
actually....



Not so well when they play MP3 versus CD cuts. Locally, the oldies station
WZBA has enough crunch on their MP3s that I can't really crank a CCR tune as
loud as I want in the car because the distortion stops me. That's just a buzz
kill. (could be another problem in their audio chain, but I don't think so.)

Regards,

Ty Forf

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Making crap sound louder on the radio at the complete expense of
quality is decades old.


Compressed audio like 'Classic FM' on a car radio works very well,
actually....

Transmitting material deliberately tweaked for a poor listening
environment is rather a two edged sword, though. The car radio could have
a compressor built in if that's the sound you want rather than inflicting
it on all listeners. Indeed part of the spec of DAB included such a device
although I've not known it be implemented.

My car radio will alter the level taking into account background noise,
though. And eq the speakers using the same microphone as sensor - if you
want. Haven't tried either yet as the mic isn't supplied as standard.

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 21:58:27 -0400, Dave wrote
(in article . com):

I have been disappointed with the audio quality of some CDs I have
bought recently.

This has been discussed many times in the recent past.
Note that far and away the prime suspect is hyper-compression
(compression of the audio levels, NOT data compression of the
signal stream.)

On the indie market, it's also because the recording talent too frequently
can't tell the difference between "Ouch" and "Nice."

Cheap mic and preamp choices and not understanding how good audio is made has
been as devastating to the quality of audio. You need good people who can
make better choices.

That's the downside to the democratization of the technology. When ANYONE can
afford to do it, that's what you get.

I now shoot and edit video for a part of my living. I'm sure some DPs would
scorn my work. That's fine. I'm learning and I'll get better.

Gotta' nice handheld piece shot last week for singer/songwriter friend
Randall Williams. He saw mine and wanted something up on YouTube.

You can see/hear it at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDjKgmMydF4

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...

As to your OP, I think you are asking for a piece of (free) software that
will analyse for any "footprint" left behind by MP3 compression. I have
never come across any such software, free or otherwise

Well, you could look for a 15.8kHz hard bandlimit on the audio using the
frequency analyzer in a DAW. That would indicate the likelihood that a
128kbps .mp3 was part of the chain. It's still pretty unlikely, though,
unless the recording is something like a live gig issued by the band
itself,
perhaps from a portable .mp3 recorder.

A hard bandlimit may indicate the possibility of a 128k MP3, but
band-limiting can indicate also that a lower sample rate was used:- 32k
sample rate was regularly used in the past for ISDN audio transfers, if the
intended outlet was FM transmission. Higher bit-rate MP3 would not
necessarily have the band-limiting except the normal anti-aliasing filter
common to all PCM digital audio.


Not impossible, though. Hey, I once co-produced and mastered an album from
a
hodgepodge of sources, and one track on it was from MiniDisc, which uses
perceptual-coding algorithms not too conceptually different from those in
the .mp3 format. It's Art Thieme's "The Older I Get, The Better I Was" on
Waterbug. I'd be surprised if someone can tell me which track it was by
ear
(no cheating and looking at the liner notes!)

Peace,
Paul

And some albums were recorded on Tascam Portastudios (4 track analogue
cassette), which, arguably, sound a lot worse than MP3 at higher bit rates,
domestic reel-reel machines and other sources.

S

http://audiopages.googlepages.com

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 13:19:57 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Making crap sound louder on the radio at the complete expense of
quality is decades old.


Compressed audio like 'Classic FM' on a car radio works very well,
actually....

Transmitting material deliberately tweaked for a poor listening
environment is rather a two edged sword, though. The car radio could have
a compressor built in if that's the sound you want rather than inflicting
it on all listeners. Indeed part of the spec of DAB included such a device
although I've not known it be implemented.

It is implemented on my Arcam DAB receiver. Problem is that it is in
my home, and I don't need to use it there.
d

My car radio will alter the level taking into account background noise,
though. And eq the speakers using the same microphone as sensor - if you
want. Haven't tried either yet as the mic isn't supplied as standard.

It wouldn't work if it were fitted. It would equalise to where the mic
is, not where you are, and they will have vastly different frequency
response errors, particularly in a car.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Ty Ford" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 07:13:28 -0400, Keith G wrote
(in article ):


"Colin B." wrote


I'd suggest that this isn't a recent phenomenon. I've got plenty of
pop
vinyl from the 1970s and 1980s that has roughly no dynamics.



Yep, you bought it so *they* kept on supplying it - same thing's
happening today, apparently. Where's the problem?


Making crap
sound louder on the radio at the complete expense of quality is
decades old.


Compressed audio like 'Classic FM' on a car radio works very well,
actually....



Not so well when they play MP3 versus CD cuts. Locally, the oldies station
WZBA has enough crunch on their MP3s that I can't really crank a CCR tune
as
loud as I want in the car because the distortion stops me. That's just a
buzz
kill. (could be another problem in their audio chain, but I don't think
so.)

Regards,

Ty Forf

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

Maybe we should be grateful that here in the UK, the BBC and our larger
commercial stations won't allow the use of MP2/3 or MiniDisc source material
except in unusual circumstances. As far as I know, GCap (GWR and Capital
Groups) and the BBC's hard-disc playout systems are all linear, as are the
studio-transmitter links. Whilst they do have very heavy audio compression
in the transmission processor, the FM signal stays linear from CD through to
FM transmitter. The reason for this is that the same signal is used for the
DSat and DAB feeds, and they found that multiple codings gave unacceptable
results on DAB, especially at the low bit rates currently used.

S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

In article ,
Ty Ford wrote:
There's a difference in how this was acheived, though. In older days
it was through the arrangement of the music and studio recording
practices. The Phil Spector 'wall of sound' for example. These days
it's done using largely automatic processors after the studio
recording is signed off. Similar to the types used for processing
radio at the transmitters.



I'll respectfully disgree, Dave. Colin's right. In the US, anyway.

In our local songwriters ass'n compilation CD, two years ago, we had
several entries that were mp3 and NOT particularly well done. We let it
go in the name of art. (Not this year though.)

I'm not quite sure what that has to do with commercial recordings?

Lots of artifacts and reduced bandwidth that's what you look (listen)
for. Try MP3ing them and see if they don't fall apart even more
precipitously relative to normal wav files.

--
*Real men don't waste their hormones growing hair

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Serge Auckland
wrote:



Others have mentioned the infuriating habit today of removing any
vestige of dynamic range from modern mastered CDs, then clipping the
result, all in an attempt to get maximum loudness. I previously posted
that the Daily Mail even, ran an article a week or two ago highlighting
this trend.

ahem There is an article related to this in the latest issue of 'Hi Fi
News', cover dated August 2007. Clipping and level compression aren't the
only manifestations of this problem...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html