"Iain Churches" wrote in message
ti.fi...

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
news

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:46:18 +0300, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Not that the two artists are in any other way similar (except their
professionalism, of course) but Bing Crosby also liked to "sit in
with the band", not facing them as one would expect a singer to
do, but actually "sit in". For an engineer this creates all kind of
problems. But he needed no foldback and no retakes either:-)


Who needs foldback when you can do it in one take? When you have a
band, though, as long as the conductor has foldback on a headphone you
have it covered. Either that or have him facing the booth window so
you can wave at him.


Vocalists find it ifficult to manage without foldback even on concert
performances. It really has nothing to do with the number of takes, but
they need audio cues, to hear their own intonation and the tempo
and pitch of the track.

Concert foldback balancing is quite a skill, much in demand. The
foldback balance usually bears no resemblance to the concert balance
itself.

Very very few singers can provide a one-take performance (even after
extensive rehearsal) In concerts, with the visual reference, slight
blemishes in intonation and timing go largely unnoticed,
but in recording they stick out like sore thumbs.
Hence the needs for overdubbing, foldback and
multiple takes.

As recording technique has evolved, the standard of performance
has deteriorated probably directly in proportion. There is no need
to be able to "sing it in one" any more

At least nowaday using IEM you don't have the foldback wedge speakers
muddying the vocal channel if the vocalist doesn't like to get up close
and make love to the mic. I agree about the loss of 'sing it in one'
and
even worse the use chorusing and looping in a song just makes it more
artificial sounding. There used to be a real pride and a measure of the
musicians quality to take it in one.


Hi Mike.

I totally agree. Even though they are "straight stereo" very few
classical or jazz recordings are actually one take. There are usually
overlapping "patches" which are edited in to the main take.

It is not unusual at jazz concerts for the audience to be asked to
stay on for a while, for "encore versions" Most people in the audience
are happy to do this, to hear bonus tracks (which are of course second
takes for patches)

In my experience, many vocalists, and also
instrumental soloists can give a pretty good rendition on
about the third take (overdub to the backing track)
But they still think they can do better, and so we go
on, and on, and on, and on - jst because we can.
I can remember 72 takes of a 16 bar guitar solo.
After working all night, all of us were knackered.
In the morning we listened to T3 - it was brilliant:-)

I stopped working on pop productions when it became
de rigeur to record each drum (BD, Snare, TTs, plus HH
and cyms) not only on its own track, but separately against
a click track. It took most of the morning to put down a
three minute drum comp.

Regards
Iain


Hi Iain,

72 takes, that must be mega frustrating and time consuming...and they'll all
be different listening after a nights sleep ;~) I've done maybe 10 or so
takes doing trails late night and thats enough for me, mostly its okay
hearing them back in the cold light of day...
Click tracks, some pop drummers can't keep time without them. Okay I suppose
for the use you mentioned but IMO when drummers rely on CT then it goes
along way to make music more mechanical and less spontaneous