On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:08:40 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...Comparison.mp3

I only listened on speakers in my laptop, but even that way, number
two sounded pretty shrill in comparison with 1.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:08:40 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...Comparison.mp3

I only listened on speakers in my laptop, but even that way, number
two sounded pretty shrill in comparison with 1.


Laptop speakers???

I would have thought this comparison represents the ultimate *extreme*
between two different pairs of mics on a price basis, if nothing else -
well worth a pair of headphones, if not burning to disk and playing over
your hifi system!!

(Hint: A price differential of possibly 100:1 !!??)

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:13:53 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:08:40 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...Comparison.mp3

I only listened on speakers in my laptop, but even that way, number
two sounded pretty shrill in comparison with 1.


Laptop speakers???

I would have thought this comparison represents the ultimate *extreme*
between two different pairs of mics on a price basis, if nothing else -
well worth a pair of headphones, if not burning to disk and playing over
your hifi system!!

(Hint: A price differential of possibly 100:1 !!??)

i'll do that a bit later - just veging in front of the telly right
now. Bugger all on, as usual.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:13:53 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:08:40 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...Comparison.mp3

I only listened on speakers in my laptop, but even that way, number
two sounded pretty shrill in comparison with 1.


Laptop speakers???

I would have thought this comparison represents the ultimate *extreme*
between two different pairs of mics on a price basis, if nothing else -
well worth a pair of headphones, if not burning to disk and playing over
your hifi system!!

(Hint: A price differential of possibly 100:1 !!??)

OK, just plugged the laptop into the hi fi. On number two, the whole
thing has a tilted feel towards the top end. The bass is much lighter,
and the top is much brighter. I prefer number 1.

So did I pick the 100 or the 1?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:13:53 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Laptop speakers???

I would have thought this comparison represents the ultimate *extreme*
between two different pairs of mics on a price basis, if nothing
else -
well worth a pair of headphones, if not burning to disk and playing
over
your hifi system!!

(Hint: A price differential of possibly 100:1 !!??)

OK, just plugged the laptop into the hi fi. On number two, the whole
thing has a tilted feel towards the top end. The bass is much lighter,
and the top is much brighter. I prefer number 1.

So did I pick the 100 or the 1?


Actually, I got that wrong - the price differential is more like 10:1
but it's still significant!

OK, you are choosing the expensive mics - as you have probably gathered,
they ain't mine! (I don't have that many musicians here!! :-)

And now the cat's out of the bag, the 'owner' may come forward with more
information, but what I think is interesting is that I think the second
clip sounds quite good in its own right and it seems to me that if you
play the second clip first it can actually make the first clip sound a
bit 'boomy' by comparison!

(It seems I like a brighter sound - I wonder if it's my hearing???)

On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:43:23 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:13:53 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Laptop speakers???

I would have thought this comparison represents the ultimate *extreme*
between two different pairs of mics on a price basis, if nothing
else -
well worth a pair of headphones, if not burning to disk and playing
over
your hifi system!!

(Hint: A price differential of possibly 100:1 !!??)

OK, just plugged the laptop into the hi fi. On number two, the whole
thing has a tilted feel towards the top end. The bass is much lighter,
and the top is much brighter. I prefer number 1.

So did I pick the 100 or the 1?


Actually, I got that wrong - the price differential is more like 10:1
but it's still significant!

OK, you are choosing the expensive mics - as you have probably gathered,
they ain't mine! (I don't have that many musicians here!! :-)

And now the cat's out of the bag, the 'owner' may come forward with more
information, but what I think is interesting is that I think the second
clip sounds quite good in its own right and it seems to me that if you
play the second clip first it can actually make the first clip sound a
bit 'boomy' by comparison!

(It seems I like a brighter sound - I wonder if it's my hearing???)


It is more than likely that you are losing a bit of top end. We never
did manage to do that test a while ago cos you only had a laptop for a
source, and they just put out odd frequencies all over the place.

Any road up, what were those mics?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:43:23 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:13:53 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Laptop speakers???

I would have thought this comparison represents the ultimate
*extreme*
between two different pairs of mics on a price basis, if nothing
else -
well worth a pair of headphones, if not burning to disk and playing
over
your hifi system!!

(Hint: A price differential of possibly 100:1 !!??)

OK, just plugged the laptop into the hi fi. On number two, the whole
thing has a tilted feel towards the top end. The bass is much
lighter,
and the top is much brighter. I prefer number 1.

So did I pick the 100 or the 1?


Actually, I got that wrong - the price differential is more like 10:1
but it's still significant!

OK, you are choosing the expensive mics - as you have probably
gathered,
they ain't mine! (I don't have that many musicians here!! :-)

And now the cat's out of the bag, the 'owner' may come forward with
more
information, but what I think is interesting is that I think the
second
clip sounds quite good in its own right and it seems to me that if you
play the second clip first it can actually make the first clip sound a
bit 'boomy' by comparison!

(It seems I like a brighter sound - I wonder if it's my hearing???)


It is more than likely that you are losing a bit of top end. We never
did manage to do that test a while ago cos you only had a laptop for a
source, and they just put out odd frequencies all over the place.

Any road up, what were those mics?



Neumann M49 (I believe) and *unbadged* cheepie Chinkies!!

Their owner may have more to say - I can't, but what a contrast, eh?

No-one is arguing that you don't get what you pay for but my point is
that for a fraction of the price of a *quality* mic, the Chinkies are
far from a complete waste of time - *if* they are working OK!!

(My plan is that when/if ever our recording sessions get good enough I
may well punt the necessary for a decent pair of mics....)

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 00:11:26 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:43:23 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 23:13:53 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Laptop speakers???

I would have thought this comparison represents the ultimate
*extreme*
between two different pairs of mics on a price basis, if nothing
else -
well worth a pair of headphones, if not burning to disk and playing
over
your hifi system!!

(Hint: A price differential of possibly 100:1 !!??)

OK, just plugged the laptop into the hi fi. On number two, the whole
thing has a tilted feel towards the top end. The bass is much
lighter,
and the top is much brighter. I prefer number 1.

So did I pick the 100 or the 1?


Actually, I got that wrong - the price differential is more like 10:1
but it's still significant!

OK, you are choosing the expensive mics - as you have probably
gathered,
they ain't mine! (I don't have that many musicians here!! :-)

And now the cat's out of the bag, the 'owner' may come forward with
more
information, but what I think is interesting is that I think the
second
clip sounds quite good in its own right and it seems to me that if you
play the second clip first it can actually make the first clip sound a
bit 'boomy' by comparison!

(It seems I like a brighter sound - I wonder if it's my hearing???)


It is more than likely that you are losing a bit of top end. We never
did manage to do that test a while ago cos you only had a laptop for a
source, and they just put out odd frequencies all over the place.

Any road up, what were those mics?



Neumann M49 (I believe) and *unbadged* cheepie Chinkies!!

Their owner may have more to say - I can't, but what a contrast, eh?

No-one is arguing that you don't get what you pay for but my point is
that for a fraction of the price of a *quality* mic, the Chinkies are
far from a complete waste of time - *if* they are working OK!!

(My plan is that when/if ever our recording sessions get good enough I
may well punt the necessary for a decent pair of mics....)


OK, I've done a quick bit of work on the cheepy chinky to try and make
it sound like the Neumann. waddya think?

http://81.174.169.10/odds/OtherMicComparison[eq].mp3

Is the Neumann worth the extra?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:08:40 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...Comparison.mp3

I only listened on speakers in my laptop, but even that way, number
two sounded pretty shrill in comparison with 1.


Laptop speakers???

I would have thought this comparison represents the ultimate *extreme*
between two different pairs of mics on a price basis, if nothing else -
well worth a pair of headphones, if not burning to disk and playing over
your hifi system!!

(Hint: A price differential of possibly 100:1 !!??)


Morning Don. A few days ago, during a discussion about
Chinese mics, it occurred to me that it would be interesting
to bi-rig a smallish session for comparison with a normal set-up.

I borrowed five Chinese mics model 2000 made by a company
called SCT. (!!) I believe these are the same microphones
sold by Thoman in Germany with the T Bone badge.

Of the five, one did not work at all, and one pair were opposite
phase to the other pair. Putting this right was not difficult, but
the plan for a tree and two outriggers, five mics in all, could not
be realised.

Yesterday, I sent a short segment to Keith by e-mail, for him to
hear the difference, I did not really expect him to post it. This
is copyright material, even though it is only a first rehearsal. I
have asked him to take it down by 1200 hrs UK time.

As you observed, the Chinese sound is dryer, and considerably
brighter (brittle was the word one of my colleagues used) When
the orchestra is playing in sections, this is not too obtrusive until
the violins start to play. One gets the impression they have barbed
wire strings.

It is not difficult to EQ the two tracks to sound similar, (we
tried an inverted bell with a fairly wide Q centred on 3k8) But
the timbre, particularly of celli is still rather disappointing,
Interesting also that the centre image was difficult to establish
with the Chinkies. The RH mic had more gain.

Difficult to estimate the price differential. Probably 100:1 is
close to the mark.

I have a feeling these mics might be very good indeed on pop
piano, with their forward mid range. I have a very good Decca
compressor with which I would like to try with them.

Iain

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:23:28 +0300, "Iain Churches"
wrote:


"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 21:08:40 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...Comparison.mp3

I only listened on speakers in my laptop, but even that way, number
two sounded pretty shrill in comparison with 1.


Laptop speakers???

I would have thought this comparison represents the ultimate *extreme*
between two different pairs of mics on a price basis, if nothing else -
well worth a pair of headphones, if not burning to disk and playing over
your hifi system!!

(Hint: A price differential of possibly 100:1 !!??)


Morning Don. A few days ago, during a discussion about
Chinese mics, it occurred to me that it would be interesting
to bi-rig a smallish session for comparison with a normal set-up.

I borrowed five Chinese mics model 2000 made by a company
called SCT. (!!) I believe these are the same microphones
sold by Thoman in Germany with the T Bone badge.

Of the five, one did not work at all, and one pair were opposite
phase to the other pair. Putting this right was not difficult, but
the plan for a tree and two outriggers, five mics in all, could not
be realised.

Yesterday, I sent a short segment to Keith by e-mail, for him to
hear the difference, I did not really expect him to post it. This
is copyright material, even though it is only a first rehearsal. I
have asked him to take it down by 1200 hrs UK time.

As you observed, the Chinese sound is dryer, and considerably
brighter (brittle was the word one of my colleagues used) When
the orchestra is playing in sections, this is not too obtrusive until
the violins start to play. One gets the impression they have barbed
wire strings.

It is not difficult to EQ the two tracks to sound similar, (we
tried an inverted bell with a fairly wide Q centred on 3k8) But
the timbre, particularly of celli is still rather disappointing,
Interesting also that the centre image was difficult to establish
with the Chinkies. The RH mic had more gain.

Difficult to estimate the price differential. Probably 100:1 is
close to the mark.

I have a feeling these mics might be very good indeed on pop
piano, with their forward mid range. I have a very good Decca
compressor with which I would like to try with them.

Iain





Did you listen to my equalization? I think it turned out quite well,
but with this mic we might be at or beyond the limit of what can be
rescued. My eq was considerably more complex than the one you tried -
I used the FFT filter in Audition, so I think it has possibly made a
better job of removing those sharp barbs from the strings.

I could have done with some content above 9kHz to do a proper job
though. It all sounded very filtered by the low rate MP3 coding.

I suppose that when you are producing rather than recording music,the
word "bad" doesn't come into it (apart from perhaps unreliability). A
mic is either right or wrong for a job.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com