In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
Loads of turntables and arms about, and a guy selling vinyl to happy
users. Valves accounted for about half the amplification. Box speakers
for almost all the speakers - what happened to all the electroctatics
and ribbons? Ribbons, of course, as tweeters were quite common. Pinsh
had a longer ribbon which sounded rather nice.

[snip and change in quoting level]


Thanks for that Andy, it was most interesting, but I'm sure you are
mistaken about the percentage of valve amps and the vinyl stuff

Don't know why they should. I see no reason to doubt what Andy reported
about how much valve/vinyl there was at the show. I wonder what fraction of
the population of the UK went to the show, or displayed there, though...
or have even heard of such events... :-)


-
anybody here will tell you they are both in a tiny majority and only of
interest to a few *deranged* anacrophiles....

Afraid I can only "tell you" that in the last decade or more, when I ask
people, in general, almost no-one has any interest in either valves or
vinyl - or indeed has much interest in audio/hifi. Many are aware that
vinyl LP is still around, but have no LPs or way to play them. Most I've
asked seem puzzled that anyone is still using valve equipment for domestic
audio. Exception being for guitar amps.

There are some people who are very interested, but they don't seem to me to
be a very high fraction of the UK population. I'll ask my undergrad classes
again this year, though, and see if there is any change from recent years.
But I suspect most will be using CD or MP3 players for music, and have no
real interest in 'hifi' or 'audio' as such, let alone valve or vinyl.

If someone has some well-researched figures for what fraction of the UK
*do* use valves and/or vinyl for home audio I'd be interested. Particularly
if the figures can distinguish audio enthusiasts from guitar players or
people who use such for 'fashion' or 'niche' reasons like dance/DJ uses.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
Loads of turntables and arms about, and a guy selling vinyl to happy
users. Valves accounted for about half the amplification. Box
speakers
for almost all the speakers - what happened to all the electroctatics
and ribbons? Ribbons, of course, as tweeters were quite common. Pinsh
had a longer ribbon which sounded rather nice.

[snip and change in quoting level]


Thanks for that Andy, it was most interesting, but I'm sure you are
mistaken about the percentage of valve amps and the vinyl stuff

Don't know why they should. I see no reason to doubt what Andy
reported
about how much valve/vinyl there was at the show. I wonder what
fraction of
the population of the UK went to the show, or displayed there,
though...
or have even heard of such events... :-)


-
anybody here will tell you they are both in a tiny majority and only
of
interest to a few *deranged* anacrophiles....

Afraid I can only "tell you" that in the last decade or more, when I
ask
people, in general, almost no-one has any interest in either valves or
vinyl - or indeed has much interest in audio/hifi. Many are aware that
vinyl LP is still around, but have no LPs or way to play them. Most
I've
asked seem puzzled that anyone is still using valve equipment for
domestic
audio. Exception being for guitar amps.

There are some people who are very interested, but they don't seem to
me to
be a very high fraction of the UK population. I'll ask my undergrad
classes
again this year, though, and see if there is any change from recent
years.
But I suspect most will be using CD or MP3 players for music, and have
no
real interest in 'hifi' or 'audio' as such, let alone valve or vinyl.

If someone has some well-researched figures for what fraction of the
UK
*do* use valves and/or vinyl for home audio I'd be interested.
Particularly
if the figures can distinguish audio enthusiasts from guitar players
or
people who use such for 'fashion' or 'niche' reasons like dance/DJ
uses.



Good old Jimbo - unfailingly reliable when it comes to telling the
*gourmet* occupants of this 'audio restaurant' what tonnage of
MacDonald's 'Beefburgers' and 'Turkey Twizzlers' are beiing shifted
around the globe....

:-)

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:41:09 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Good old Jimbo - unfailingly reliable when it comes to telling the
*gourmet* occupants of this 'audio restaurant' what tonnage of
MacDonald's 'Beefburgers' and 'Turkey Twizzlers' are beiing shifted
around the globe....

:-)




He's not doing that. He's seeing a bunch of people paying sharks huge
amounts of money to go foraging on a scrap heap, and shouting "hey,
the gourmet restaurants out here are actually much cheaper".

;-)

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:41:09 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Good old Jimbo - unfailingly reliable when it comes to telling the
*gourmet* occupants of this 'audio restaurant' what tonnage of
MacDonald's 'Beefburgers' and 'Turkey Twizzlers' are beiing shifted
around the globe....

:-)




He's not doing that. He's seeing a bunch of people paying sharks huge
amounts of money to go foraging on a scrap heap, and shouting "hey,
the gourmet restaurants out here are actually much cheaper".

;-)



It's nothing to do with money - Jim appears (to me, at least) much more
concerned with the *percentages* of the people who use valves and vinyl.
(Like what the Great Unwashed does has anything to do with being right
about anything or, perish the thought, knowing what's best...!!!) If you
permit the equation of eBay secondhand analogue with Tesco electronics
prices there are equals at every price point from genuine bargain to
serious rip-off in both analogue/digital, valves and SS, in my book!

(FWIW, the only person in my immediate circle who *doesn't* play vinyl
records is my youngest son - and he doesn't seem to have the time to do
anything these days!! ;-)

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:45:49 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:41:09 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Good old Jimbo - unfailingly reliable when it comes to telling the
*gourmet* occupants of this 'audio restaurant' what tonnage of
MacDonald's 'Beefburgers' and 'Turkey Twizzlers' are beiing shifted
around the globe....

:-)




He's not doing that. He's seeing a bunch of people paying sharks huge
amounts of money to go foraging on a scrap heap, and shouting "hey,
the gourmet restaurants out here are actually much cheaper".

;-)



It's nothing to do with money - Jim appears (to me, at least) much more
concerned with the *percentages* of the people who use valves and vinyl.
(Like what the Great Unwashed does has anything to do with being right
about anything or, perish the thought, knowing what's best...!!!) If you
permit the equation of eBay secondhand analogue with Tesco electronics
prices there are equals at every price point from genuine bargain to
serious rip-off in both analogue/digital, valves and SS, in my book!

(FWIW, the only person in my immediate circle who *doesn't* play vinyl
records is my youngest son - and he doesn't seem to have the time to do
anything these days!! ;-)


No iPod?



But in the end it is all just fun.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:45:49 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote


It's nothing to do with money - Jim appears (to me, at least) much
more
concerned with the *percentages* of the people who use valves and
vinyl.
(Like what the Great Unwashed does has anything to do with being right
about anything or, perish the thought, knowing what's best...!!!) If
you
permit the equation of eBay secondhand analogue with Tesco electronics
prices there are equals at every price point from genuine bargain to
serious rip-off in both analogue/digital, valves and SS, in my book!

(FWIW, the only person in my immediate circle who *doesn't* play vinyl
records is my youngest son - and he doesn't seem to have the time to
do
anything these days!! ;-)


No iPod?


I don't think so. He's like me at that age - too busy for old fart stuff
like *audio*!!


But in the end it is all just fun.


Oh yes indeed, the day it stops being fun is the day I drop it like a
hot stone....

(FWIW, the only person in my immediate circle who *doesn't* play vinyl
records is my youngest son -

Same here - a lot of my friends are musicians and have stuff on LP
they never replaced with the CDs. But I would add that CDs get played
much more frequently.

My son doesn't want to know anything about valves or vinyl. But then
he doesn't want to know anything about Scriabin or Stan Getz
either.....................

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
(FWIW, the only person in my immediate circle who *doesn't* play
vinyl
records is my youngest son -

Same here - a lot of my friends are musicians and have stuff on LP
they never replaced with the CDs. But I would add that CDs get played
much more frequently.

My son doesn't want to know anything about valves or vinyl. But then
he doesn't want to know anything about Scriabin or Stan Getz
either.....................


Son #1 is (at 33) a lifelong vinylist player/collector (since about 12
years old) and will never change; son #2 (at 30) was a DJ vinylist when
he was a teenager but doesn't bother now, as I stated earlier. Amongst
other stuff (naturally) both seem to rate The White Stripes and it
appears there's a roaring trade on eBay - both CD and vinyl!

But no Scriabin or Stan Getz also, I'm sorry to say....

In article .com,
Andy
Evans wrote:
(FWIW, the only person in my immediate circle who *doesn't* play vinyl
records is my youngest son -

Same here - a lot of my friends are musicians and have stuff on LP they
never replaced with the CDs. But I would add that CDs get played much
more frequently.

I've made it a routine practice over the years to ask colleagues and
students about this. During the last decade or so, almost none of them have
a way of playing Vinyl LPs, nor any valve amplifiers. There are some
exceptions, but they have been in a very small minority. Far more of them
play musical instruments or sing in a choir, group, etc. Thus my impression
that - apart from those who play an electric guitar - even the 'musicians'
generally have no real interest in either valves or vinyl.

Older colleagues are more likely than students these days to have, or play
LPs - but in my experience this almost always is when they have LPs they
bought decades ago, not that they are buying them now. I only know of two
people who regularly buy LPs. One of them also is keen on valve amps, but
said he wished he could get a 732. Although to be fair I think it was the
ESL63s he really meant. :-) The other 'collects' them when they are issued
by one of the groups he likes. But he collects them as objects, and has no
LP replay system.

I've typically asked the order of 100 people per year. Too small to be a
reliable guide to the UK population, but the results seem starkly different
to those you and Keith report. I wonder to what extent your reports are
'self selected' groupings as they are friends and people you choose to
associate with. Whereas I am generally asking students whose tastes.
lifestyles, and interests are generally different to my own. Most use MP3
and seem more interested in video than audio per se. Last time I asked,
many more had a DVD recorder than any LPs. They also usually listen to
types of modern 'pop' music which I find tedious.

There are a few magazine shops in town. My estimate is that they sell no
more than a dozen or two 'audio' mags per month. So far less than one
percent of those in the town buy such magazines, or will ever even hear of
audio shows - let alone attend one.

There is also a second-hand shop in town that has fair stock of vinyl as
well as CD, etc. But as with the magazines, it could be commercially
successful even if only a small fraction of locals bought LPs there, and it
also sells via the web as you might expect these days. So as with the
above, it gives no real guide to how popular overall LP may be. So far as I
can tell, it does not sell new or audiophile LPs. Just old ones at
impressive prices.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote


I've typically asked the order of 100 people per year. Too small to be
a
reliable guide to the UK population, but the results seem starkly
different
to those you and Keith report. I wonder to what extent your reports
are
'self selected' groupings as they are friends and people you choose to
associate with. Whereas I am generally asking students whose tastes.
lifestyles, and interests are generally different to my own. Most use
MP3
and seem more interested in video than audio per se. Last time I
asked,
many more had a DVD recorder than any LPs. They also usually listen to
types of modern 'pop' music which I find tedious.


I don't think I've ever alluded to the possibility that my 'immediate
circle of friends and family' would in any way represent a reflection of
the practices and preferences of the general UK population. (Tbh, I
would be a bit alarmed if they did...!!)

When I was younger, 100% of the people I knew who *played* music (as
opposed to listened to it on the radio) played LPs because that's all
there was; any such friends I have occasionally bumped into from that
era still have LPs and appear to play them. Recently-made friends have
been the 'self selected' type of grouping you mention inasmuch as it has
been the common interest in 'audio' that has introduced us and all of
them play LPs. You are continually polling the same select group of
individuals on a yearly basis and getting consistent results - hardly
surprising is it? Undergrad students probably have to be the people with
the least time or inclination to spend the sort of time or money on
feeding a vinyl habit! I suspect it is more likely that shop assistants
of the same age would be 'vinyl users' - if only of the 'disco type'!!

I can offer the following *approximate* statistics, if it helps:

100% of the people I knew a few decades ago (that played music) played
LPs.

100% of the people I know now (that play music) play LPs.

50% of my immediate family play LPs.

100% of this household play and prefer LPs.

50% of my immediate neighbours own LPs but probably never play them.

90% of the people I have met who subscribe or lurk here (ukra) play LPs.


AFAIAC, I don't care what percentage of *any* group plays or doesn't
play vinyl; my only concern is that vinyl should remain a valid *audio*
topic in this group....