Popped in this afternoon. All the usual suspects, I guess. I took a CD
and played it on quite a few systems. Mainly disappointing. Chord
probably the worst, alongside Bauhorn. Both were significantly
coloured, with the Chord CD player adding some interesting pops to the
CD and the amp some earthquake low frequencies. I was glibly told it
was a bad recording and this was the microphone overloading. Strange
how it never happened on any other system ever. Bauhorn system was
like listening inside a bucket - absolutely dreadful.

Usual monstrously huge amps sold by Audio Research and McIntosh - have
the circuits changed since the 60s? Anyone for a re-tube? From the
factory, natch.

Loads of turntables and arms about, and a guy selling vinyl to happy
users. Valves accounted for about half the amplification. Box speakers
for almost all the speakers - what happened to all the electroctatics
and ribbons? Ribbons, of course, as tweeters were quite common. Pinsh
had a longer ribbon which sounded rather nice.

Good sounds from Max Townshend - nice chap too. Another room had a
good Avalon clone speaker with those inverted Thiel ceramic speakers.
It worked for Avalon, and it's still a good recipe for clean sound.
The guy demonstrating is forming English Valve Amps - evidently more
news later.

My favourite room was the Pure Sound one of Guy Sergeant. He had some
unexpectedly good speakers from Germany, which were driven by his own
design Push Pull 2a3 amp, made in China with obviously good
transformers. Clean, clear and remarkably glitch-free sound finally
did everything pretty much right. About £600 for the speakers and
£1,700 for the amp. Dealers margins a typical 50%, so you can work
back to the ex-factory price. You could pay a huge amount more money
and get worse sound.

Andy

On Sep 21, 12:15 pm, Andy Evans wrote:
Popped in this afternoon. All the usual suspects, I guess. I took a CD
and played it on quite a few systems. Mainly disappointing. Chord
probably the worst, alongside Bauhorn. Both were significantly
coloured, with the Chord CD player adding some interesting pops to the
CD and the amp some earthquake low frequencies. I was glibly told it
was a bad recording and this was the microphone overloading. Strange
how it never happened on any other system ever. Bauhorn system was
like listening inside a bucket - absolutely dreadful.

Usual monstrously huge amps sold by Audio Research and McIntosh - have
the circuits changed since the 60s? Anyone for a re-tube? From the
factory, natch.

Loads of turntables and arms about, and a guy selling vinyl to happy
users. Valves accounted for about half the amplification. Box speakers
for almost all the speakers - what happened to all the electroctatics
and ribbons? Ribbons, of course, as tweeters were quite common. Pinsh
had a longer ribbon which sounded rather nice.

Good sounds from Max Townshend - nice chap too. Another room had a
good Avalon clone speaker with those inverted Thiel ceramic speakers.
It worked for Avalon, and it's still a good recipe for clean sound.
The guy demonstrating is forming English Valve Amps - evidently more
news later.

My favourite room was the Pure Sound one of Guy Sergeant. He had some
unexpectedly good speakers from Germany, which were driven by his own
design Push Pull 2a3 amp, made in China with obviously good
transformers. Clean, clear and remarkably glitch-free sound finally
did everything pretty much right. About £600 for the speakers and
£1,700 for the amp. Dealers margins a typical 50%, so you can work
back to the ex-factory price. You could pay a huge amount more money
and get worse sound.

Andy

Thanks for that, Andy. Are you actually in the market for bought hi-
fi?

The last time I was in a high-end store was probably fifteen years
ago. The guy had some nice stuff, of which the best was the Audio
Innovations amps (made under the second, tube management, between
Qvortrup leaving to found ANUK and AI becoming merely another crappy
silicon brand). One of the best amps AI ever made, in a notably
distinguished lineup, was a PP 2A3. It might have been called "The
First". But I had just finished building an Audio Innovations Classic
Stereo 25, a seriously good amp they sold as a kit, so I didn't buy
it; I should have because it is actually harder now to find a good
tube amp unless you build it yourself or go shopping for the old
favourites still in production (Triode Supply Japan's MIyabe, a
bargain too for what it is; but I have two already).

Hell, maybe it is just like the clever line Dave Plowman threw out the
other day: In the golden age everyone complained that everything was
yellow. Maybe I should just fix up some broken, known-good amps. Or
build a new one...

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
Popped in this afternoon. All the usual suspects, I guess. I took a CD
and played it on quite a few systems. Mainly disappointing. Chord
probably the worst, alongside Bauhorn. Both were significantly
coloured, with the Chord CD player adding some interesting pops to the
CD and the amp some earthquake low frequencies. I was glibly told it
was a bad recording and this was the microphone overloading. Strange
how it never happened on any other system ever. Bauhorn system was
like listening inside a bucket - absolutely dreadful.

Usual monstrously huge amps sold by Audio Research and McIntosh - have
the circuits changed since the 60s? Anyone for a re-tube? From the
factory, natch.

Loads of turntables and arms about, and a guy selling vinyl to happy
users. Valves accounted for about half the amplification. Box speakers
for almost all the speakers - what happened to all the electroctatics
and ribbons? Ribbons, of course, as tweeters were quite common. Pinsh
had a longer ribbon which sounded rather nice.

Good sounds from Max Townshend - nice chap too. Another room had a
good Avalon clone speaker with those inverted Thiel ceramic speakers.
It worked for Avalon, and it's still a good recipe for clean sound.
The guy demonstrating is forming English Valve Amps - evidently more
news later.

My favourite room was the Pure Sound one of Guy Sergeant. He had some
unexpectedly good speakers from Germany, which were driven by his own
design Push Pull 2a3 amp, made in China with obviously good
transformers. Clean, clear and remarkably glitch-free sound finally
did everything pretty much right. About £600 for the speakers and
£1,700 for the amp. Dealers margins a typical 50%, so you can work
back to the ex-factory price. You could pay a huge amount more money
and get worse sound.



Thanks for that Andy, it was most interesting, but I'm sure you are
mistaken about the percentage of valve amps and the vinyl stuff -
anybody here will tell you they are both in a tiny majority and only of
interest to a few *deranged* anacrophiles....

:-)

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
Loads of turntables and arms about, and a guy selling vinyl to happy
users. Valves accounted for about half the amplification. Box speakers
for almost all the speakers - what happened to all the electroctatics
and ribbons? Ribbons, of course, as tweeters were quite common. Pinsh
had a longer ribbon which sounded rather nice.

[snip and change in quoting level]


Thanks for that Andy, it was most interesting, but I'm sure you are
mistaken about the percentage of valve amps and the vinyl stuff

Don't know why they should. I see no reason to doubt what Andy reported
about how much valve/vinyl there was at the show. I wonder what fraction of
the population of the UK went to the show, or displayed there, though...
or have even heard of such events... :-)


-
anybody here will tell you they are both in a tiny majority and only of
interest to a few *deranged* anacrophiles....

Afraid I can only "tell you" that in the last decade or more, when I ask
people, in general, almost no-one has any interest in either valves or
vinyl - or indeed has much interest in audio/hifi. Many are aware that
vinyl LP is still around, but have no LPs or way to play them. Most I've
asked seem puzzled that anyone is still using valve equipment for domestic
audio. Exception being for guitar amps.

There are some people who are very interested, but they don't seem to me to
be a very high fraction of the UK population. I'll ask my undergrad classes
again this year, though, and see if there is any change from recent years.
But I suspect most will be using CD or MP3 players for music, and have no
real interest in 'hifi' or 'audio' as such, let alone valve or vinyl.

If someone has some well-researched figures for what fraction of the UK
*do* use valves and/or vinyl for home audio I'd be interested. Particularly
if the figures can distinguish audio enthusiasts from guitar players or
people who use such for 'fashion' or 'niche' reasons like dance/DJ uses.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

the best was the Audio Innovations amps (made under the second, tube management, between Qvortrup leaving to found ANUK and AI becoming merely another crappy silicon brand). One of the best amps AI ever made, in a notably distinguished lineup, was a PP 2A3. It might have been called "The First".

Well, you seem to be psychic because the Pure Audio 2a3 amp that
sounded so nice at this years show was designed by Guy Sergeant, who
had a hand in the exact Audio Innovations kit you describe. Shows how
much changes in 20 years or so in the business. Mind - Audio
Innovations were at that point pretty innovative in bringing out a 2a3
amp.

Thanks for that Andy, it was most interesting, but I'm sure you are
mistaken about the percentage of valve amps and the vinyl stuff -
anybody here will tell you they are both in a tiny majority and only of
interest to a few *deranged* anacrophiles....

:-)

The HEathrow Show never represented the majority of "playback
systems" (let's not call them HiFi) as flogged by Richer Sound down to
Woolworths. It's a showcase for the small producers in particular, and
believe me, small manufacturers do still see a future in vinyl and
valves. I'm not kidding - arms and turntables were everywhere, and
valva amps were at least half of what was there. I quite understand
valves, but I don't get vinyl - apart from the rather pleasant sound
(though I'm probably happier with digital sources and a stonkingly
good DAC myself) the disadvantages of jumping up and down to change
sides, replacing a ?500 needle the cat broke, keeping a cleaning
machine in the garage, building 20 sq ft of one foot deep
shelving...... I could go on. but there is admittedly something very
retro-chic about operating one of those esoteric arms and seeing a
thin strand of silk bring Mozart to life.

Andy

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
ups.com...

Thanks for that Andy, it was most interesting, but I'm sure you are
mistaken about the percentage of valve amps and the vinyl stuff -
anybody here will tell you they are both in a tiny majority and only
of
interest to a few *deranged* anacrophiles....

:-)

The HEathrow Show never represented the majority of "playback
systems" (let's not call them HiFi) as flogged by Richer Sound down to
Woolworths. It's a showcase for the small producers in particular, and
believe me, small manufacturers do still see a future in vinyl and
valves. I'm not kidding - arms and turntables were everywhere, and
valva amps were at least half of what was there. I quite understand
valves, but I don't get vinyl


?

- apart from the rather pleasant sound


Seems you do...??

:-)


(though I'm probably happier with digital sources and a stonkingly
good DAC myself) the disadvantages of jumping up and down to change
sides,


:-)


replacing a ?500 needle the cat broke,


Lose the cat, pay less than 100 for carts on eBay....


keeping a cleaning
machine in the garage,


Mine's on the floor in a built-in cupboard - the garage is too far away!


building 20 sq ft of one foot deep
shelving......


Yes, but make that at least 40-50 sq ft in terms of wall area.....



I could go on. but there is admittedly something very
retro-chic about operating one of those esoteric arms and seeing a
thin strand of silk bring Mozart to life.


Or a thundering wall of Mahler or even 'techno' sound from the likes of
Yello or turn up the volume a tad and bring the Girl From Ipanema a bit
closer - she *is* in the room with you....

(Andy, you'll have a turntable on the go before Christmas and will
probably be into valve phono stages by then as well! :-)

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
Loads of turntables and arms about, and a guy selling vinyl to happy
users. Valves accounted for about half the amplification. Box
speakers
for almost all the speakers - what happened to all the electroctatics
and ribbons? Ribbons, of course, as tweeters were quite common. Pinsh
had a longer ribbon which sounded rather nice.

[snip and change in quoting level]


Thanks for that Andy, it was most interesting, but I'm sure you are
mistaken about the percentage of valve amps and the vinyl stuff

Don't know why they should. I see no reason to doubt what Andy
reported
about how much valve/vinyl there was at the show. I wonder what
fraction of
the population of the UK went to the show, or displayed there,
though...
or have even heard of such events... :-)


-
anybody here will tell you they are both in a tiny majority and only
of
interest to a few *deranged* anacrophiles....

Afraid I can only "tell you" that in the last decade or more, when I
ask
people, in general, almost no-one has any interest in either valves or
vinyl - or indeed has much interest in audio/hifi. Many are aware that
vinyl LP is still around, but have no LPs or way to play them. Most
I've
asked seem puzzled that anyone is still using valve equipment for
domestic
audio. Exception being for guitar amps.

There are some people who are very interested, but they don't seem to
me to
be a very high fraction of the UK population. I'll ask my undergrad
classes
again this year, though, and see if there is any change from recent
years.
But I suspect most will be using CD or MP3 players for music, and have
no
real interest in 'hifi' or 'audio' as such, let alone valve or vinyl.

If someone has some well-researched figures for what fraction of the
UK
*do* use valves and/or vinyl for home audio I'd be interested.
Particularly
if the figures can distinguish audio enthusiasts from guitar players
or
people who use such for 'fashion' or 'niche' reasons like dance/DJ
uses.



Good old Jimbo - unfailingly reliable when it comes to telling the
*gourmet* occupants of this 'audio restaurant' what tonnage of
MacDonald's 'Beefburgers' and 'Turkey Twizzlers' are beiing shifted
around the globe....

:-)

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:41:09 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Good old Jimbo - unfailingly reliable when it comes to telling the
*gourmet* occupants of this 'audio restaurant' what tonnage of
MacDonald's 'Beefburgers' and 'Turkey Twizzlers' are beiing shifted
around the globe....

:-)




He's not doing that. He's seeing a bunch of people paying sharks huge
amounts of money to go foraging on a scrap heap, and shouting "hey,
the gourmet restaurants out here are actually much cheaper".

;-)

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:41:09 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Good old Jimbo - unfailingly reliable when it comes to telling the
*gourmet* occupants of this 'audio restaurant' what tonnage of
MacDonald's 'Beefburgers' and 'Turkey Twizzlers' are beiing shifted
around the globe....

:-)




He's not doing that. He's seeing a bunch of people paying sharks huge
amounts of money to go foraging on a scrap heap, and shouting "hey,
the gourmet restaurants out here are actually much cheaper".

;-)



It's nothing to do with money - Jim appears (to me, at least) much more
concerned with the *percentages* of the people who use valves and vinyl.
(Like what the Great Unwashed does has anything to do with being right
about anything or, perish the thought, knowing what's best...!!!) If you
permit the equation of eBay secondhand analogue with Tesco electronics
prices there are equals at every price point from genuine bargain to
serious rip-off in both analogue/digital, valves and SS, in my book!

(FWIW, the only person in my immediate circle who *doesn't* play vinyl
records is my youngest son - and he doesn't seem to have the time to do
anything these days!! ;-)